F23 and the rest of the cast.

[Jayroc]

Superman has 9 strings in the command list compared to some characters that have 2 pages of strings ex (batgirl). So using Superman what else am I suppose use??? Suggestions??? NRS designed him with very little options. Take away his only good advancing normal and he becomes the Joker. There is no advantage for breath anymore so after breath its a free ball game to any other character. Even shit characters can d1 special into something. Take away every characters best string and what do you have = scrub characters. Characters with great mix-ups (ex flash and AM) would survive losing a string but characters with weak mix-ups like Supes would not. I don't see how Superman could be nerfed anymore without breaking him tbh. Maybe air laser could be more punishable idk but F23 breath is 0 advantage so how is zero advantage not fair? If F23 breath gets nerfed for the 3rd or 4th time it should push back opponents out of range of d1 for sure.

 

[Rude]

....Seriously?

 

[Duck Nation]

I thought this was going to be a thread about how each character can handle f23, which would have been a good idea, actually. This forum might need that.

 

[shoshinsha]

It's not the advantage at the end, it's the speed, distance, and hitbox on startup. A string like f23 should be somewhere between 11-15 frames on startup.

 

[Jayroc]

Is that the average for advancing normals, idk? If he has the fastest start up then I don't feel it should be slower than the character with the 2nd fastest advancing normal. If so are they -, zero, or plus on block assuming the string ends in breath. If the start-up was changed I don't see how the end could be changed.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

I'll drop this suggestion once again: Keep F23 , Keep breath at 0 , don't fuse them together. (Make F23 uncancellable)

You either F2 x Breathe for pressure or commit to F23 for your big damage. Choose, fucker.

 

[Jayroc]

I'll drop this suggestion once again: Keep F23 , Keep breath at 0 , don't fuse them together. (Make F23 uncancellable)

You either F2 x Breathe for pressure or commit to F23 for your big damage. Choose, fucker.

I like the ending lol, but really if it wasn't cancellable Supes could not trait mid-screen could never get to 40% in a combo mid- screen. 1 bar of meter should get all characters to 38%-40%. Say your suggestion is right, then he would have to be un-normalized cause F23, F23 breath would not be "big" damaged.

 

[redeyes]

I like the ending lol, but really if it wasn't cancellable Supes could not trait mid-screen could never get to 40% in a combo mid- screen. 1 bar of meter should get all characters to 38%-40%. Say your suggestion is right, then he would have to be un-normalized cause F23, F23 breath would not be "big" damaged.

22 MB breath b3 j3 F2 scoop 3 rising grab idk the $ but it should be 35+

22 mb breath trait b3 blah blah blah for like 45

 

[Zyphox]

i think the only nerf you should do to f23 breathe is reduce the push back on breathe that way every character in this game can d1 it atleast, that and increase the frames on recovery for whiffed lasers. thats all they need to do.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

I like the ending lol, but really if it wasn't cancellable Supes could not trait mid-screen could never get to 40% in a combo mid- screen. 1 bar of meter should get all characters to 38%-40%. Say your suggestion is right, then he would have to be un-normalized cause F23, F23 breath would not be "big" damaged.

Was that not what we want? We want Supes to not have his 50% combos in exchange for all his other tools. GOD FORBID you have to play the game for a longer period of time instead of killing within 4 combos.

 

[Hellion_96]

I think NRS knew how good an 8 fram mid is and gave it to him on purpose because he's superman

 

[Jayroc]

22 MB breath b3 j3 F2 scoop 3 rising grab idk the $ but it should be 35+

22 mb breath trait b3 blah blah blah for like 45

22 is a good string at 10 frames start up (i think). F23 is 9 frames. That should be flipped around. Im not at home to test but im doubting MB breath, trait, b3 works or the timing would not work for a real match. 22 is only good with 223 or 22 scoop. Thats his very weak mix up game.

 

[redeyes]

22 is a good string at 10 frames start up (i think). F23 is 9 frames. That should be flipped around. Im not at home to test but im doubting MB breath, trait, b3 works or the timing would not work for a real match. 22 is only good with 223 or 22 scoop. Thats his very weak mix up game.

f2 is 8 and why not do you know how fast trait recovers?

 

[xWildx]

Lmfao

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

22 is a good string at 10 frames start up (i think). F23 is 9 frames. That should be flipped around. Im not at home to test but im doubting MB breath, trait, b3 works or the timing would not work for a real match. 22 is only good with 223 or 22 scoop. Thats his very weak mix up game.

Then why not 22 x Breath? A normalized version of F23. If you want to keep your fast advancer you still have F2 x Breath. I may be feeling myself a bit here but I really think my suggestion is really good.

 

[Jayroc]

Was that not what we want? We want Supes to not have his 50% combos in exchange for all his other tools. GOD FORBID you have to play the game for a longer period of time instead of killing within 4 combos.

Correction - He does not get anywhere close to 50% mid-screen. 44-45% with no oki follow up. 69% corner combo is obnoxious but no reason he cant have corner combos mid 50% like other characters.

 

[kronspik]

f23 is too fast for a safe mid cancellable advancing launcher. It's pretty much a perfect string. They NEED to reduce the startup.

 

[Jayroc]

Then why not 22 x Breath? A normalized version of F23. If you want to keep your fast advancer you still have F2 x Breath. I may be feeling myself a bit here but I really think my suggestion is really good.

I dont think it is a bad suggestion but the change would be more complexs in order not to break him.

 

[Rampage254]

MB B3 on reaction

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

He does not get anywhere close to 50% mid-screen. 44-45% with no oki follow up. 69% corner combo is obnoxious but no reason he cant have mid screen 50% combos in the corner like other characters.

"Like other characters" Who besides top tier? My character sure as hell doesn't have 50% midscreen. I can't even break 50% in the corner unless I have interactables. I believe DS's higher corner 1 bar is 47%

 

[Circus]

i think the only nerf you should do to f23 breathe is reduce the push back on breathe that way every character in this game can d1 it atleast, that and increase the frames on recovery for whiffed lasers. thats all they need to do.

o__O

I don't think you thought that through dude lol

If they lower the pushback on breathe then vs characters with a 7frame lowjab he'd have a block infinite in the corner with lowjabxxBreathe lowjabxxBreathe lowjabxxBreathe because Superman has a 6frame lowjab. The lowjab loop would be able to be backdashed midscreen, but regardless it'd be giving him MORE options instead of less.

 

[Eddy Wang]

F2 should hit high, this wouldn't hurt superman, in fact his gameplay would stop being brain dead and this string would be used with more intelligence instead.

 

[Zyphox]

I don't think you thought that through dude lol

If they lower the pushback on breathe then vs characters with a 7frame lowjab he'd have a block infinite in the corner with lowjabxxBreathe lowjabxxBreathe lowjabxxBreathe because Superman has a 6frame lowjab. The lowjab loop would be able to be backdashed midscreen, but regardless it'd be giving him MORE options instead of less.

true, then just make breathe -1

 

[Jayroc]

o__O

I don't think you thought that through dude lol

If they lower the pushback on breathe then vs characters with a 7frame lowjab he'd have a block infinite in the corner with lowjabxxBreathe lowjabxxBreathe lowjabxxBreathe because Superman has a 6frame lowjab. The lowjab loop would be able to be backdashed midscreen, but regardless it'd be giving him MORE options instead of less.

I agree, if anything regarding push back it should more.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

F2 should hit high, this wouldn't hurt superman, in fact his gameplay would stop being brain dead and this string would be used with more intelligence instead.

F2 hitting high would make F2 close to useless I think. It's not hard to D1 it on reaction.