Guide - Kotal Kahn F2 Safety list

[Shufflez]

Good stuff Qwark, was a bit cautious when using f2 but 9/10 times it went unpunished, especially when your opponent is already respecting your options it usually takes them a second to start pressing buttons and by then you're safe. Also surprised mileena can't punish it, was under the impression reptile/lao/mileena were all able to blow it up.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Oh god, eddy is right. Scorpion is free to f2

Kotal can abuse 17 frames mid, -10 on block, one after the other

Lol, that way you gonna get rekt.
But if you low profile you will beat any of his combo starters, the only thing he can do to stop this for real is D1, but he has to do that extremely fast.

B2 from Hellfire and Inferno also works, but just to keep him honest on the -10 gap, its just a move that can annoy the hell out of scorpion players that is certain, since he can't even reversal punish it, you can low profile D4, if he delays he gets stuffed.

If he Blocks F2 crouching he can't input B3 right away, because the buffer bug will reversal a teleport for him.

 

[Hidan]

Lol, that way you gonna get rekt.

...really?

 

[NHDR]

What would you say is the best option after a blocked F2? Backdash to reset space?

 

[Eddy Wang]

...really?

Just do the math lol
F2 -10 on block
F2 startup = 17
Blocked F2 + F2 = -10 - 17
Total gap = -27

Scorpion's Startups:
Standing 1 = 9
Standing 2 = 10
B3 = 11
F4 = 12
B2 = 16 on any variation
Ninjutsu F2 = 15
Retarted Teleport = 21

At the minimum you're giving scorpion a full combo punish

 

[Hidan]

Just do the math lol
F2 -10 on block
F2 startup = 17
Blocked F2 + F2 = -10 - 17
Total gap = -27

Scorpion's Startups:
Standing 1 = 9
Standing 2 = 10
B3 = 11
F4 = 12
B2 = 16 on any variation
Ninjutsu F2 = 15
Retarted Teleport = 21

At the minimum you're giving scorpion a full combo punish

I don't believe it. He still replies.

I was trolling you man for saying "scorpion is free to f2". Like a move with such numbers can be abusive.

 

[Qwark28]

It could be either one. I'm not sure. F2 is -10 on block. On pc Milenna's ball roll is 7f but with the console updates its now 8f. Either way from what I understand it should be able to punish, but it can't hmmm. So either I'm totally not understanding frame data, milenna's ball roll is actually more than what it reads or F2 is even more safe than it reads.

I didn't test her ball, forgot how fast it was.

She definitely can punish then.

 

[RYX]

@Crayraven @Qwark28

ball doesn't travel fast enough in the few frame it takes for him to recover

 

[Pnut]

Why is this bill being sold on Scorp being free to F2? Just d1/d4 into your pressure/mixup. This thread was simply made for people that could full combo punish.

 

[ando1184]

How exactly was this tested? I ask because quite a few characters can probably punish with reversals and I only see up all from Kano listed in the OP. I know jax dash punch, SZ and Reptile slides and others can punish as well.

 

[Wigy]

So i can't even S1 on it because is 9 frames startup, F3 is 12, B3 is 11 and BF4 is 12.

Guess scorpion is free to F2 after all, just abuse that shit against him until he cracks.

you seem to do a lot of these 'oh poor scorpion' posts.

 

[usedcarsalesmang]

cant cassie reversal kickflip punish?

 

[Eddy Wang]

you seem to do a lot of these 'oh poor scorpion' posts.

I dunno what you plan to accomplish by bashing everyone who doesn't agree with something(Yes i've been watching you), but i wonder why did you quote my post in first place if you have nothing to add in making this matter better, at least i play the character. If you don't, please stop talking

 

[Wigy]

I dunno what you plan to accomplish by bashing everyone who doesn't agree with something(Yes i've been watching you), but i wonder why did you quote my post in first place if you have nothing to add in making this matter better, at least i play the character. If you don't, please stop talking

Any post i've seen you make on scorpion has been negative. All i'm saying and that last one was a bit silly. I'll work on being nicer but most of my posts where i disagree with somebody are calm discussions.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Any post i've seen you make on scorpion has been negative. All i'm saying and that last one was a bit silly. I'll work on being nicer though.

I know hellfire is master race, i know Inferno is annoying online, but when i'm talking about scorpion just need a tiny, really tiny help, i'm talking about Ninjutsu, other than that he is really fine, ppl seems to assume everyone plays hellfire on TYM which is sad.

Even hellfire is a bit overrated though, but he shouldn't be underestimated either.

 

[Wigy]

I know hellfire is master race, i know Inferno is annoying online, but when i'm talking about scorpion just need a tiny, really tiny help, i'm talking about Ninjutsu, other than that he is really fine, ppl seems to assume everyone plays hellfire on TYM which is sad.

Even hellfire is a bit overrated though, but he shouldn't be underestimated either.

Thats alright, fair enough. However the stuff i've seen u complain about, if they were changed would make hellfire even more stupid. He doesn't need a faster mid, that would effect all his variations. His ninjitsu probably does need tweaks, i'd believe you on that.

Also the first topic i just went on after this i saw you saying scorpion is the riskiest character. See what i mean?

 

[Qwark28]

I dunno what you plan to accomplish by bashing everyone who doesn't agree with something(Yes i've been watching you), but i wonder why did you quote my post in first place if you have nothing to add in making this matter better, at least i play the character. If you don't, please stop talking

I wouldn't assume anything of the matchup from that level of Kotal play.

 

[Doombawkz]

Standing 1?
What about standing 2, d.3, d.1 (lackey), and so on?
Also Torr's grabs all reach as far as Lackey d.1 which is... pretty fucking far

Standing 2 is probably our fastest non-lackey normal.

 

[Qwark28]

Standing 1?
What about standing 2, d.3, d.1 (lackey), and so on?
Also Torr's grabs all reach as far as Lackey d.1 which is... pretty fucking far

Standing 2 is probably our fastest non-lackey normal.

Almost every character in the game can poke after F2 to punish it and get more + frames and a tiny bit of damage, this is a list to see if you char has a proper punish

S2 doesn't reach I assume since I haven't written it.

Torr's grabs are 11f. F2 is -10.

 

[Doombawkz]

S2 doesn't reach I assume since I haven't written it.

Torr's grabs are 11f. F2 is -10.

I'd think it does. Pretty sure its range is a bit better than s.1.

Neutral grab is 10f, and yeah its reach is pretty crazy all things considered.
I'd assume at least since when you punch someone's knees with his d.1 at max range the neutral grab follow-up always seems to land just fine.

 

[Qwark28]

I'd think it does. Pretty sure its range is a bit better than s.1.

Neutral grab is 10f, and yeah its reach is pretty crazy all things considered.

Both throw and S2 punish after all. The problem is the blockstun, you're never punishing a F2 you don't expect with a throw and even then it's a just frame punish which if you fail costs you 47% and S1/S2 are highs.

 

[LionHeart]

Both throw and S2 punish after all. The problem is the blockstun, you're never punishing a F2 you don't expect with a throw and even then it's a just frame punish which if you fail costs you 47% and S1/S2 are highs.

That is beyond the point of this thread, though, isn't it?

 

[Qwark28]

That is beyond the point of this thread, though, isn't it?

It's related. I'm just mentioning this because a reliable F2 punish is extremely difficult.

 

[Doombawkz]

Both throw and S2 punish after all. The problem is the blockstun, you're never punishing a F2 you don't expect with a throw and even then it's a just frame punish which if you fail costs you 47% and S1/S2 are highs.

So if throw punishes, does s.4 punish since it is also a 10 frame move (I think, might be 11)

 

[Temjiin]

Ermac's D3 doesn't reach?