Question - Buzz Saw EX Low Hat frame data

[HoangS-Z]

I'm watching ESL Season 1 and I see Foxy Grampa often does B321 Ex Low Hat for frame trap and then F23 Spin to catch the opponent off guard. My question is: How plus was the Ex Low Hat at the begining of the game?

 

[STRYKIE]

+4.

This really could've just been a status update though...

 

[HoangS-Z]

Oh, even now Ex Straight Hat is +5, I think now we still can do F23 after.
It's so weird, Tempest's Ex Hat Spin is +7 and we cannot do F2 or B3 (mid) after that because the opponent can poke back before F2 or B3 touch them. But Ex Low Hat (prepatch) and Ex Straight Hat (now) are only +4 and +5 and we can do F2 for jailing? @@

 

[Eddy Wang]

Oh, even now Ex Straight Hat is +5, I think now we still can do F23 after.
It's so weird, Tempest's Ex Hat Spin is +7 and we cannot do F2 or B3 (mid) after that because the opponent can poke back before F2 or B3 touch them. But Ex Low Hat (prepatch) and Ex Straight Hat (now) are only +4 and +5 and we can do F2 for jailing? @@

If a move is +5 your next attack if done on perfect timing it will be 5 frames faster because your opponent will be unable to attack for another 5 frames, if the advantage is enough to clip an opponent poking or not, that is up to you.

Lao plus frames weren't just so he could mash anything at will tho, but giving him a bit of leeway to step away from normals and whiff punishing either with his command normals or his dive kicks were the primary options.

This is why you would see tempest doing strings int ex hat then back way to bait a button, you knowing its not plus enough itches you to mash out giving him a better opening than trying to mash through with while plus.

 

[Invincible Salads]

Oh, even now Ex Straight Hat is +5, I think now we still can do F23 after.
It's so weird, Tempest's Ex Hat Spin is +7 and we cannot do F2 or B3 (mid) after that because the opponent can poke back before F2 or B3 touch them. But Ex Low Hat (prepatch) and Ex Straight Hat (now) are only +4 and +5 and we can do F2 for jailing? @@

ex straight hat is +4 not +5. and ex low hat in block pressure is only +1 i believe.

 

[HoangS-Z]

If a move is +5 your next attack if done on perfect timing it will be 5 frames faster because your opponent will be unable to attack for another 5 frames, if the advantage is enough to clip an opponent poking or not, that is up to you.

Lao plus frames weren't just so he could mash anything at will tho, but giving him a bit of leeway to step away from normals and whiff punishing either with his command normals or his dive kicks were the primary options.

This is why you would see tempest doing strings int ex hat then back way to bait a button, you knowing its not plus enough itches you to mash out giving him a better opening than trying to mash through with while plus.

It's really hard to understand all of the thing that you are talking about but I do see Foxy Grampa often does Ex Hat Spin and then walk back a little bit to bait the opponent trying to press a button. I don't understand the part that you said '' if done on perfect timing it will be 5 frames faster because your opponent will be unable to attack for another 5 frames''

 

[HoangS-Z]

ex straight hat is +4 not +5. and ex low hat in block pressure is only +1 i believe.

Yeah I know they nerf the Ex Low Hat and buff the Ex Straight Hat but I don't know the reason for it =))

 

[Wigy]

It's really hard to understand all of the thing that you are talking about but I do see Foxy Grampa often does Ex Hat Spin and then walk back a little bit to bait the opponent trying to press a button. I don't understand the part that you said '' if done on perfect timing it will be 5 frames faster because your opponent will be unable to attack for another 5 frames''

If you’re +5 your move is guna come out 5 frames faster compared to them since they cant press anything for 5 frames.

I.e 11 frame move becomes 6frames

 

[HoangS-Z]

If you’re +5 your move is guna come out 5 frames faster compared to them since they cant press anything for 5 frames.

I.e 11 frame move becomes 6frames

Oh I see, that's the reason why Foxy can do F2 after +4 Ex Low Hat, but it doesn't explain why we can't do F2 after +7 Ex Hat Spin, I tried and the opponents still can poke back

 

[Wigy]

Oh I see, that's the reason why Foxy can do F2 after +4 Ex Low Hat, but it doesn't explain why we can't do F2 after +7 Ex Hat Spin, I tried and the opponents still can poke back

Thats just down to human error.

Is f2 not 11 frames ?

If so you can’t poke back, your timing is wrong.