EX Dash Setup

[Chuckychuck]

So after all these gimmick threads I just paused for a moment in silence and thought to myself. "How could I setup a gimmick that would cause a reaction that allows me to setup pressure in a favorable fashion?". The idea here is not to use a gimmick for more pressure like going invisible and shooting force balls or blindly doing 321's but more along the lines of adding confusion giving you the upper hand within sweep distance.

Cancelling a string into acid hands to gain some space and be safe at -4 is the most common thing but is it the most appropriate response to every character?

Say for instance you are fighting Kenshi, any blocked regular shoulder within 2 sc on block is punishable by a dash, wouldn't it be better to be safe and close to Kenshi rather than leave you at the distance of a blocked acid hand? What I mean is, against characters that you must rush down and can't zone, is it better to be at 321 acid hand distance at -4 or 32 invisibility distance at -2? You're still safe, but you can counter poke, etc. It's not like Kenshi has very fast normals and his rushdown isn't anything Reptile can't handle.

Anyways, the reason I thought of this was to set up a ex dash because at -2 the dash is still 7 frames and is very fast.

 

[Seapeople]

Using 32 invisibility for the sake of counterpoking or following up with ex dash misses the point.

Block strings into invisibility are something you want to use rarely and at the most unpredictable time possible. When you use it, immediately follow up with 321 or 122. The point is to catch your opponent off guard and get a full combo or block string from their slow reaction.

 

[Treadmill]

Using 32 invisibility for the sake of counterpoking or following up with ex dash misses the point.

Block strings into invisibility are something you want to use rarely and at the most unpredictable time possible. When you use it, immediately follow up with 321 or 122. The point is to catch your opponent off guard and get a full combo or block string from their slow reaction.

Yes. No point in dropping a string with the intent only to poke to regain advantage.

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[Chuckychuck]

I know what you guys are saying but eventually you will end your pressure. The idea isn't to bust out that 3 invis 32 invis crap it's to apply it only to the ender of your pressure. At this point what I am wondering is if it's better to be -4 at acid hand distance or -2 at invisibility distance versus specific matchs ups like Kenshi for instance.

 

[Seapeople]

I know what you guys are saying but eventually you will end your pressure. The idea isn't to bust out that 3 invis 32 invis crap it's to apply it only to the ender of your pressure. At this point what I am wondering is if it's better to be -4 at acid hand distance or -2 at invisibility distance versus specific matchs ups like Kenshi for instance.

Why end your pressure with 32~invis when you could keep it going with 3/32/321 or other pressure tools? I don't use 321~acid hand to purposefully end my pressure. I use it to keep my opponent in check when I think they won't block all four hits of the string.

 

[Chuckychuck]

Why end your pressure with 32~invis when you could keep it going with 3/32/321 or other pressure tools? I don't use 321~acid hand to purposefully end my pressure. I use it to keep my opponent in check when I think they won't block all four hits of the string.

So you just keep 3/32/321'ing until you get poked?

 

[Seapeople]

So you just keep 3/32/321'ing until you get poked?

Or until I get a combo because they let go of block at the wrong time. I'll take my chances. And that's not taking into consideration the other footsie tools available to you...walking backward among other things.

 

[THTB]

Seapeople hit it perfectly.

 

[Salad Petresky]

I think in a make like kenshi you really want the most meter as possible, leaving -2 isnt a good idea considering how slow reptile is, unless you are going for the cross over jump/321 poke blow up setup or bait a certain move (KL spin, sonya kartwheel, cage xray).

Plus 321 AH isnt a bad idea against people like kenshi. Since you are -4 he can check you with a SC, but you can also check him with an ex dash

 

[Chuckychuck]

I think in a make like kenshi you really want the most meter as possible, leaving -2 isnt a good idea considering how slow reptile is, unless you are going for the cross over jump/321 poke blow up setup or bait a certain move (KL spin, sonya kartwheel, cage xray).

Plus 321 AH isnt a bad idea against people like kenshi. Since you are -4 he can check you with a SC, but you can also check him with an ex dash

321 invis at -2 means you can dash his shoulder so he can't check you with a shoulder unless he wants to get dashed. I'm not sure if you can check his shoulder after 321 acid hand.

 

[Briggs8417]

321 invis at -2 means you can dash his shoulder so he can't check you with a shoulder unless he wants to get dashed. I'm not sure if you can check his shoulder after 321 acid hand.

You can't check shoulder after either, Reptile is -2 after invisibility strings and dash is 6 frames, and depending on when you used invisibility your spacing could add more frames to the dash. Shoulder is an 8 frame move, and your will have at best 8 frames trying to ex dash him after invisibility. Not to mention Kenshi could always just armor it too. I honestly only ever use ex dash anymore once my opponent starts respecting my wake ups, then I get free advantage after I'm knocked down, also as a situational pressure tool out of block strings to keep the opponent guessing. Honestly I think ex dash follow ups are what Reptile players should be working on next to further the character. I have found a few things but they aren't the most reliable.

 

[Chuckychuck]

You can't check shoulder after either, Reptile is -2 after invisibility strings and dash is 6 frames, and depending on when you used invisibility your spacing could add more frames to the dash. Shoulder is an 8 frame move, and your will have at best 8 frames trying to ex dash him after invisibility. Not to mention Kenshi could always just armor it too. I honestly only ever use ex dash anymore once my opponent starts respecting my wake ups, then I get free advantage after I'm knocked down, also as a situational pressure tool out of block strings to keep the opponent guessing. Honestly I think ex dash follow ups are what Reptile players should be working on next to further the character. I have found a few things but they aren't the most reliable.

If he shoulders you he gets dashed. That's what I meant. So he can't check you with shoulder because you can insta dash right after.

 

[Briggs8417]

If he shoulders you he gets dashed. That's what I meant. So he can't check you with shoulder because you can insta dash right after.

Yeah I know what you meant, but it doesn't work off of every invisibility string.

 

[Chuckychuck]

Yeah I know what you meant, but it doesn't work off of every invisibility string.

What do you mean?

 

[Briggs8417]

What do you mean?

Say you do 321 invisibility, the pushback off of the string is going to add more frames to the dash, giving Kenshi more frame advantage for shoulder. Same thing for d4, 122, or f2 into invisibility. 32 is really the only string where this could give you a good chance of this working, unless you try to throw them off with things they might not have seen before like 1 invis or 3 invis, but then you are just really negative.

 

[Chuckychuck]

Say you do 321 invisibility, the pushback off of the string is going to add more frames to the dash, giving Kenshi more frame advantage for shoulder. Same thing for d4, 122, or f2 into invisibility. 32 is really the only string where this could give you a good chance of this working, unless you try to throw them off with things they might not have seen before like 1 invis or 3 invis, but then you are just really negative.

I'm not saying you do invisi straight into a dash, you do it to be end the pressure in a position that allows you to dash a shoulder check, preventing further usage of it.

 

[Briggs8417]

I'm not saying you do invisi straight into a dash, you do it to be end the pressure in a position that allows you to dash a shoulder check, preventing further usage of it.

Alright throw an example at me here, I don't think I get it haha, it sounds like we are saying the same thing two different ways to me.

 

[Chuckychuck]

Alright throw an example at me here, I don't think I get it haha, it sounds like we are saying the same thing two different ways to me.

3/32/321 invisiblity puts you at d3 range so you can check a d1 with a dash, d3 with d4, a shoulder with dash and a block with a grab. Staggering the 321 string into acid hand doesn't give you these options.

Normally when you want to end your pressure or check for a poke you cancel into AH. So what I am wondering is if it's worth cancelling into acid hand against Kenshi because doing invisibility can allow you check for the pokes and shoulders.

So basically, it's just replacing AH with Invis to end your pressure to give you more options.

Edit: what I am not saying is doing the 3/32/321 invisibility rush down mix up parlor trick.

 

[Briggs8417]

3/32/321 invisiblity puts you at d3 range so you can check a d1 with a dash, d3 with d4, a shoulder with dash and a block with a grab. Staggering the 321 string into acid hand doesn't give you these options.

Normally when you want to end your pressure or check for a poke you cancel into AH. So what I am wondering is if it's worth cancelling into acid hand against Kenshi because doing invisibility can allow you check for the pokes and shoulders.

So basically, it's just replacing AH with Invis to end your pressure to give you more options.

Edit: what I am not saying is doing the 3/32/321 invisibility rush down mix up parlor trick.

Sooo, yeah that's what I have been talking about this whole time haha.

Edit: 1) If you cancel into invis yer at -2 so pretty much all of Reptile's low pokes are going to get blown up hard.

2) Checking shoulders with dashes only works from a certain range, which a lot of Reptile's strings put him out of that range, and a well time shoulder would stop the dash follow up.

 

[Chuckychuck]

Sooo, yeah that's what I have been talking about this whole time haha.

Edit: 1) If you cancel into invis yer at -2 so pretty much all of Reptile's low pokes are going to get blown up hard.

2) Checking shoulders with dashes only works from a certain range, which a lot of Reptile's strings put him out of that range, and a well time shoulder would stop the dash follow up.

Re #1: I don't know what to tell you here. It's a read. If they d3 you d4. If they are standing, you can d3 to pressure.

Re #2: You can dash punish a shoulder at the range the invisibility places you. He can't shoulder back to back at this range.

 

[Chuckychuck]

Ok let's try this another way.

Why would you end your pressure in 321 acid hand against Kenshi instead of 321 invisibility?

 

[Briggs8417]

Re #1: I don't know what to tell you here. It's a read. If they d3 you d4. If they are standing, you can d3 to pressure.

Re #2: You can dash punish a shoulder at the range the invisibility places you. He can't shoulder back to back at this range.

I highly recommend you just don't poke at all after invisibility, it's really not worth it in the end. As for the shoulder punish, it's a gamble, I also don't recommend just throwing out dash here unless you block a shoulder, because if he tries to throw out another it will be stuffed if at the right spacing.

 

[Briggs8417]

Ok let's try this another way.

Why would you end your pressure in 321 acid hand against Kenshi instead of 321 invisibility?

Chip/meter, as well as keeping him in check from trying to poke out from staggers, which I get is what you are saying what you could do with invisibility, but the difference is that you aren't trying to throw out any pokes after acid hand. Trying to poke when negative with normals that are already sooo slow just isn't going to help the cause that much.

Edit: If you want my opinion on how to keep people honest and in check with Reptile, I believe just to stagger strings as much as possible, and throw the hell out of them as well. Once they start respecting this you can open them up a lot more. It's a simple universal tactic in fighting games in general...are they going to throw me or hit me? Are they going to stop here or keep going?

 

[Chuckychuck]

I highly recommend you just don't poke at all after invisibility, it's really not worth it in the end. As for the shoulder punish, it's a gamble, I also don't recommend just throwing out dash here unless you block a shoulder, because if he tries to throw out another it will be stuffed if at the right spacing.

Ok this is the thing. It's not to 321 invisibility to then poke him. It's to do invisiblity to be within range for a coutner poke or counter dash based on a read. It's not relentless pressure doing 321, invis, poke, 3, 321 etc. It's to do 321, invis, pressure is over. Now make a read.

The reason I am wondering the value of this in a Kenshi fight is because I find you are better off in his face then zoning him and so I'm trying to determine whether it's better to end the pressure at invisibility range or acid hand range.

 

[Briggs8417]

Ok this is the thing. It's not to 321 invisibility to then poke him. It's to do invisiblity to be within range for a coutner poke or counter dash based on a read. It's not relentless pressure doing 321, invis, poke, 3, 321 etc. It's to do 321, invis, pressure is over. Now make a read.

The reason I am wondering the value of this in a Kenshi fight is because I find you are better off in his face then zoning him and so I'm trying to determine whether it's better to end the pressure at invisibility range or acid hand range.

So you want to do 321 invis then just stop? Why go invisible then? Why not just stop at 321 then be neutral?