Strategy Ermac Frame Data

[Somberness]

How to understand this.
Execution
1 - 10
1,2 - 11
1,2,1 - 19
2 - 12
2,2 - 16
3 - 12
3,1 - 17
3,1,2 - 12
3,3 - 19
4 - 20
D+1 - 6
D+2 - 13
D+3 - 7
D+4 - 12
B+1 - 21
B+1,1 - 13
B+1,1,4 - 16
B+1,2 - 16
B+1,2,F+1 - 11
B+2 - 17-51
B+2,1 - 17
B+2,1,F+2 - 20
B+2,B+1 - 16
B+3 - 12
B+3,4 - 26
B+4 - 15
F+1 - 18
F+1,1 - 12
F+1,1,4 - 15
F+2 - 21
F+4 - 14
F+4,B+2 - 20
U+4 - 25
Throw - 10
Force Ball - 19
Force Ball (full screen) - 47
Airblast - 10
Force Port - 33
Force Port (air, minimum) - 26
Force Lift - 13
Hover Slam - 60-179 (32 startup to cancel into a special)
Force Push - 14
Focus Ball - 19
Focus Ball (full screen) - 46
Force Blast - 10
Teleport - 33
Teleport (air, minimum) - 26
Telelift - 13
Levitate Smash - 54-163 (32 startup to cancel into a special)
Telepush - 14
Cannonball Slam - 23

Block Advantage
1 - 0
1,2 - -7
1,2,1 - 0
2 - 0
2,2 - -3
3 - -8
3,1 - 0
3,1,2 - -2
3,3 - -11
4 - -3
D+1 - -13
D+2 - -1
D+3 - -11
D+4 - 0
B+1 - -2
B+1,1 - -15
B+1,1,4 - -4
B+1,2 - -8
B+2 - -13
B+3 - -6
B+3,4 - 0
B+4 - +2
F+1 - -5
F+1,1 - -10
F+1,1,4 - +4
F+2 - +4
F+4 - -9
F+4,B+2 - -27
U+4 - -4
Force Ball - -16
Airblast - ~0
Force Port - -43
Force Lift - -26
Force Push - -17
Focus Ball - -16
Force Blast - ~0
Teleport - -43
Telelift - -26
Telepush - -17
Cannonball Slam - -42

Hit Advantage
1 - 0
1,2 - 0
1,2,1 - +6
2 - +11
2,2 - +2
3 - -5
3,1 - +13
3,1,2 - +41
3,3 - +6
4 - +15
D+1 - +1
D+1 (vs crouch) - -1
D+2 - +36, +29
D+3 - -2
D+3 (vs crouch) - +5
D+4 - +12
D+4 (vs crouch) - +5
B+1 - +5
B+1,1 - 0
B+1,1,4 - +21, +19
B+1,2 - +30, +33
B+1,2,F+1 - +75, +59
B+2 - +3
B+2 (max hold) - +56, +49
B+2,1 - +25, +21
B+2,1,F+2 - +46, +34
B+2,B+1 - +38, +26
B+3 - +47, +35
B+3,4 - +62, +51
B+4 - +26, +18
F+1 - +9
F+1,1 - +6
F+1,1,4 - +54, +37
F+2 - +30, +34
F+4 - +13
F+4,B+2 - +34, +8
U+4 - +24, +20
Forward Throw - +7
Backward Throw - +7
Force Ball - +3
Airblast - ~+21
Force Port - +34
Force Lift - +64, +60
Hover Slam - -15
Force Push - +34, +25
Focus Ball - +3
Force Blast - ~+21
Teleport - +31, +35
Telelift - +55, +52
Levitate Smash - -13
Telepush - +62
Cannonball Slam - +7

Duration
1 - 26
1,2 - 49
1,2,1 - 72
2 - 27
2,2 - 60
3 - 40
3,1 - 44
3,1,2 - 66
3,3 - 64
4 - 43
D+1 - 25
D+2 - 46
D+3 - 24
D+4 - 33
B+1 - 50
B+1,1 - 84
B+1,1,4 - 100
B+1,2 - 80
B+1,2,F+1 - 86
B+2 - 6-83 (57 no hold)
B+2,1 - 58
B+2,1,F+2 - 82
B+2,B+1 - 59
B+3 - 38
B+3,4 - 55
B+4 - 40
F+1 - 43
F+1,1 - 66
F+1,1,4 - 79
F+2 - 44
F+4 - 51
F+4,B+2 - 96
U+4 - 56
Throw - 36
Force Ball - 55
Force Port - 54 (19 in front, 35 behind)
Force Lift - 66
Hover Slam - 117-236
Force Push - 58
Focus Ball - 55
Teleport - 43 (19 in front, 24 behind)
Telelift - 66
Levitate Smash - 111-230
Telepush - 58
Cannonball Slam - 92

Cancel Advantage (block)
1 - +19
1,2 - +14
1,2,1 - +26
2 - +25
2,2 - +25
3 - +18
3,1 - +19
3,1,2 - +13
3,3 - +18
4 - +17
D+1 - +1
D+3 - +2
D+4 - +26
B+1 - +12
B+1,1 - +16
B+1,1,4 - +25
B+3 - +18
B+3,4 - +17
F+1 - +14
F+1,1 - +15
F+1,1,4 - +24
F+4 - +13

Cancel Advantage (hit)
1 - +25
1,2 - +46
1,2,1 - +30
2 - +24
2,2 - +30
3 - +21
3,1 - +25
3,1,2 - +56
3,3 - +35
4 - +35
D+1 - +15
D+1 (vs crouch) - +13
D+3 - +12
D+3 (vs crouch) - +19
D+4 - +32
D+4 (vs crouch) - +25
B+1 - +18
B+1,1 - +31
B+1,1,4 - +50, +48
B+1,2 - ≥+11
B+2 - ≥+17
B+2,1 - +38, +34
B+2,1,F+2 - +69, +57
B+2,B+1 - +61, +48
B+3 - +70, +59
B+3,4 - +74, +63
F+1 - +28
F+1,1 - +30
F+1,1,4 - +74, +57
F+4 - ≥+20

Miscellaneous
Breaker (when grounded vs grounded opponent) - ~+14, ~+13

 

[Error]

Ermac has so many moves with block advantage! We are pleased with this. Thank you.

 

[zaf]

Great stuff man, this is awesome.

I guess in certain situations against characters with bad wake up games ( tsung comes to mind), we can use sweep more often then f4 as we are +2 on block and nothing like a knock down to expose the wake up games

 

[Cimmerian]

Unbelievable frame data!Metzos will be blissful!

 

[Metzos]

Gj m8. We really appreciate this thnx alot.

 

[Skkra]

Amazing job, Somberness. Thank you so much.

I'm surprised at a few things, actually. Sweep being +2 on block was a nice one. U+4 being +4 on block is awesome. I already use that move a bunch but had no idea that it left you with a solid frame advantage!

The other thing that really surprised me was 3,1 being even on block! For some reason it feels like Ermac gets tiny advantage. I guess its just in my head.

 

[Ermaculate_Slim]

Awesome job I'm gonna study the hell outta this

 

[Pagan]

I KNEW f2 was a frame trap. f114 being +4 was a surprise though.

 

[RedSpectre221]

Thanks alot needed this info.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

Okay...talk to me like a 5 year-old, because I know next to nothing of frame data, but I really want to learn.

How does Ermac generally stack up frame-wise against the rest of the roster?
Is he closer to the tortoise or the hare in this race?

 

[THTB]

He's fairly average, really, on speed. It's his +frame moves that are godlike. Not many characters can say they have advantage on that much stuff. f2 is +4 and leads to juggles? That is HELLA good! The move is a lunging normal as it is! I knew it was useful.

 

[zaf]

F2 is amazing because you can tks afterwards if you know someone will move. Unless they have super armor, then you eat shit.
You can pressure after with moves like f4, d4, etc.
If you hit you can juggle.

Same thing for u4. Except that you can not juggle after this.

b3,4 is actually another rape blockstring because it ends at 0 frames on block. I've been testing this and using this all of this week. It is possible this is working nice because it is never seen, and i go unpunished?
I do not see anyone using this move, maybe because of the 2nd hit? But trust me this is a blockstring to use.

Use 3,1 b3,4 and 1,2,1 and D4 with each other. ALL 4 of these moves end at 0 on block so you can just poke right after them with a 6 frame d1 poke. The same way you use 3,1 3,1 3,1 3,1 on people in that sequence you can use 3,1 b3,4 1,2,1 the same way. So instead of only using 3,1 to continue pressure use all 3 of these strings paired with that D4 and D1. You can be hit out of 1,3,1 on the first 1, but still use it. Not everyone is going to be able to hit you out every single time. Same for b3,4. You can get hit at the 4 i believe, but still use this. This opens up more pressure for ermac because of how all the frames works.

Now if you hit someone stand blocking with a d4, you are +14 now. You are now able to dash in and start one of these strings and continue with mix ups between the 3 strings and 2 pokes. If someone wants to jump out on you after 3,1 just use 1,2,1 for pressure next. If they do jump expect them to be hit out. if they block it, continue up with d4 after.

So yea i was comparing these blockstrings to cyraxs 2,1 and 1,2.
Cyraxs two strings are also +0 on block, so the same way cyrax pressures with those two strings, ermac can do as well. Ermac has more options in what moves to use it appears.
Cyrax however also has 334 which is +5 on block.

 

[Skkra]

That is some great analysis, Zaf. Thanks so much for sharing that. I definitely need to work 1,2,1 into my game more. The fact that it leaves you neutral on block has been something I've overlooked.

I've always really loved U+4, and the +4 on block makes it even better. The only thing is that it tends to push someone a bit away from you. As far as I can tell you, if you immediately 1,2, you ARE in range for the 1 to connect. Has anyone else played with moves that are still in range after someone blocks U+4? I thiiink 3,1 is, but I'm not 100% sure. I'm also not sure if someone could backdash away in time. I'll need to test, maybe with Pimpuigi tomorrow.

 

[zaf]

D4 hits them as well after u4. Most good strings are in range.

 

[QjonPL]

Cyrax however also has 334 which is +5 on block.

Slightly OT, but: you can duck under 334 on block between first and second 3 (that string doesn't jail), so the advantage on block is nothing to worry about

 

[KamikazeJD]

Altaire nice shit bro! I havent seen a troll your size since.. Well, actually you are prolly the biggest. I applaud you. Now, for some of your points.. F114 back dash push. Bro, awesome tech considering its safe! Except that fact that both 1's are high and can be poked out of.. Good thinkin tho..
F2 is very useless. Because when I use f2 I cant frame trap anyone and get a lift out of them. Nor can I mix them up by dashing forward after the f2 and f4 u4 or throwing. F2 is worthless because if(though its more like a never cuz f2 is GOD AWFUL SLOW) f2 does hit and you link a tks then f2 again to push you get barely 28+% & you only move them damn near into the corner.. WORTHLESSS!!!!

B34 is a rape string cuz every ermac player uses it constantly abd everyone will know how and when to punish it.
I thought I was more of a rushdown ermac but, considering your prolike dedication to my character and your surpreme knowledge, I see that I am more of a scrubmac, than anything else. Can I get some of your tournament vids with ermac so I can study them? Especially the ones where you played him correctly and won majors with him. Ill wait.

 

[Hitoshura]

And I suppose you've won all sorts of tournaments with Ermac, right? Right. Good argument.

Sorry sunshine, but this is just my word against yours. I wouldn't try to tell REO how to play Kabal because his Kabal has held up consistently at the absolute highest level of play, but you? You're a nobody. Don't even TRY to talk to me like you're the Ermac of the world or some such bullshit, because at this point, you're no more credible than I am.

I love how people point out that certain strings can be ducked like you can just duck them on reaction, or like ducking in anticipation of high strings can't be blown up. If it were that easy, would Kung Lao have placed top 8 at so many majors? Yeah, that's what I thought. Of course, on top of all this, I explicitly stated that the string can be ducked, and explained where it's best used. Unlike your shitty B3 4 string (don't worry, I'll get to that in short order), F1 1 4 jails. Once they block the first hit, your opponent is stuck standing, they CANNOT duck even if they let go of block. If you link it off a JIP (which, need I remind you, is one of the situations where I recommend it), there IS no way to duck the string, because the JIP jails them standing for the first hit as well. Taking all of this into account, I guess this means the only way to reliably beat this string by ducking is to crouch in open space if you anticipate it! Oh, wait, that's retarded, because Ermac can just push/lift on reaction if you're dumb enough to crouch and not block. Just to clarify, I said this string was best used sparingly, and is only recommended as part of the F4 mixup or off a JIP/crossup because ducking is too risky in the first scenario and impossible in the second. Only low hitbox characters can duck the second hit of the string, by the way, so maybe you should've done your homework.

I don't even know WHAT to say about B2. It's still slow as shit and easily blown up by any character with good footsies (which is pretty much the entire top 15 and more), and you act like Ermac's corner game is just so threatening. WHAT is Ermac going to do against a cornered opponent that he can't do from midscreen? Please, by all means, tell me. You hype this shit up like he's Jax or Sub-Zero, so I'd love to hear why it's such a big deal for Ermac to push you to the corner.

I'm actually not too sure what your overly sarcastic quip about B3 4 is supposed to be about, but I'm fairly certain you're implying that it's good because not everyone will know how and when to punish it. First off, it's not fucking rocket science to know that you can duck and uppercut a string where the second hit leaps over even the highest of hitboxes, and you don't need to be Daigo to interrupt it when it has A FULL 28 FRAMES before the second hit even comes out. On top of all that, you'd basically be telling me that the string is good because no one has figured out how to blow it up yet. Sweet man, that's the making of the best pressure string in the game! That there is some F3 2 shit! Funny, I recall there being another string that was really good until everyone learned how to blow it up... Oh, right, 3 1 2. Yeah. Good talk.

Protip: Learn how to fucking read before you even attempt to argue with me, because I'm not in the business of spoonfeeding grown men.

DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMNNN!!!!

 

[charlieonline]

Altaire, I'd like to hear your thoughts on Ermac's other strings. Currently I am using 312, 121 as my ground strings and I b114 on jips.

Do any of them jail? Anything you can tell me about those 3 strings?

 

[charlieonline]

He's fairly average, really, on speed. It's his +frame moves that are godlike. Not many characters can say they have advantage on that much stuff. f2 is +4 and leads to juggles? That is HELLA good! The move is a lunging normal as it is! I knew it was useful.

Which juggle does it lead to? The TKS reads? Anything else?

 

[charlieonline]

What do you mean you can just throw if the opponent tries to dash in? Are you saying a throw an just grab someone dashing in before they can attack?

Second, playing pure keep away is really hard man... maintaining the force push distance is fine and all until you hit the corner.

 

[KamikazeJD]

And I suppose you've won all sorts of tournaments with Ermac, right? Right. Good argument.

Sorry sunshine, but this is just my word against yours. I wouldn't try to tell REO how to play Kabal because his Kabal has held up consistently at the absolute highest level of play, but you? You're a nobody. Don't even TRY to talk to me like you're the Ermac of the world or some such bullshit, because at this point, you're no more credible than I am.

I love how people point out that certain strings can be ducked like you can just duck them on reaction, or like ducking in anticipation of high strings can't be blown up. If it were that easy, would Kung Lao have placed top 8 at so many majors? Yeah, that's what I thought. Of course, on top of all this, I explicitly stated that the string can be ducked, and explained where it's best used. Unlike your shitty B3 4 string (don't worry, I'll get to that in short order), F1 1 4 jails. Once they block the first hit, your opponent is stuck standing, they CANNOT duck even if they let go of block. If you link it off a JIP (which, need I remind you, is one of the situations where I recommend it), there IS no way to duck the string, because the JIP jails them standing for the first hit as well. Taking all of this into account, I guess this means the only way to reliably beat this string by ducking is to crouch in open space if you anticipate it! Oh, wait, that's retarded, because Ermac can just push/lift on reaction if you're dumb enough to crouch and not block. Just to clarify, I said this string was best used sparingly, and is only recommended as part of the F4 mixup or off a JIP/crossup because ducking is too risky in the first scenario and impossible in the second. Only low hitbox characters can duck the second hit of the string, by the way, so maybe you should've done your homework.

I don't even know WHAT to say about B2. It's still slow as shit and easily blown up by any character with good footsies (which is pretty much the entire top 15 and more), and you act like Ermac's corner game is just so threatening. WHAT is Ermac going to do against a cornered opponent that he can't do from midscreen? Please, by all means, tell me. You hype this shit up like he's Jax or Sub-Zero, so I'd love to hear why it's such a big deal for Ermac to push you to the corner.

I'm actually not too sure what your overly sarcastic quip about B3 4 is supposed to be about, but I'm fairly certain you're implying that it's good because not everyone will know how and when to punish it. First off, it's not fucking rocket science to know that you can duck and uppercut a string where the second hit leaps over even the highest of hitboxes, and you don't need to be Daigo to interrupt it when it has A FULL 28 FRAMES before the second hit even comes out. On top of all that, you'd basically be telling me that the string is good because no one has figured out how to blow it up yet. Sweet man, that's the making of the best pressure string in the game! That there is some F3 2 shit! Funny, I recall there being another string that was really good until everyone learned how to blow it up... Oh, right, 3 1 2. Yeah. Good talk.

Protip: Learn how to fucking read before you even attempt to argue with me, because I'm not in the business of spoonfeeding grown men.

You type too much man, theres so much negative energy from you its ridiculous. But, my man, smartass altaire.. Ove been top 8 and further with ermac. Have I won one yet? Nope, sure havent but itll happen. What have you accomplished with him? Bro fuck the talk and the bullshit, see me at evo ft10 $50. Put up or shut up. You kno so much, school me with my character, since we all obviously play him terrible.

Kaze tip: If you aint talkin money dont bother responing. A scrub can talk numbers all day. You needa put in that work an show me wassup.

 

[charlieonline]

You aren't going to keep your opponent out with just the force push all the way until the corner, and when you do, you can dash in throw/dash in F4 to try and force them out again. All Ermac really has going for him is his keepaway. Honestly, if you wanted to play offense, why wouldn't you just play a character with better rushdown tools?

Hell, Noob's offense is ten times better than Ermac's, and his offense isn't exactly stellar. You don't see many good Noob players pressing the offense unless they really have to.

My current main is Sub and I find he has decent rush down. Dunno, who has a similar style to him.

BTW I use F4 but damn it's -9 on block, what do you follow up with after becuase you just end up flat in the guys face.

 

[QjonPL]

Small tip: if you're going to throw out a 1,2 it's always better to end the string (I mean doing 121), 12 itself is -7 on block, 0 on hit, whereas 121 is 0 blocked + has pushback (you can also try to hitconfirm: 12~Lift, on block 121)

 

[SunnyD]

Small tip: if you're going to throw out a 1,2 it's always better to end the string (I mean doing 121), 12 itself is -7 on block, 0 on hit, whereas 121 is 0 blocked + has pushback (you can also try to hitconfirm: 12~Lift, on block 121)

The pushback on 121 is really nice, cause you have enough room to escape pressure but you are also just in the perfect distance to hit a F4. Nice if your opponent like to dash like mad after you. Catches jump-ins too.

 

[THTB]

Altaire, being 0 on block is big for this game. The best normals and strings in the game are either 0 or close to it. It's especially good if it's 0 throughout the entire string.

F2 having advantage is big. Yeah, it's slow...Kitana f2...Baraka period...etc. +4 is rare, period. The pushback is excellent too. It still gives Ermac a number of options to take advantage of. He's still at his best range. And the damage you can get isn't awful by any means.

Ermac's strong point is his keepaway, but for particular reasons. Inside a certain area the opponent can't whiff anything. And letting go of block is dangerous, as well. This allows him to take advantage of his stuff like f2 and throw for quick damage. And if he needs to play offense, he's not horrible at it, either.