Breakthrough - Kung Lao [EO Beta Closed] Kung Lao Beta Changes Discussion

[N00B]

SO THEY DIDNT NERFED TAKEDAS +32 KUNAI, BUFFED KITANA AGAIN GIVING TO HER TRUE BLOCKSTRINGS BUT THEY TOOK FROM LAO HIS +12, J2, DAMAGE AND NOT EVEN BUFFED HIS NORMALS...
IM NOT SAYING J2 DOESNT NEEDED NERF, J2 SHOULDVE BEEN NERFED THATS RIGHT BUT THIS MOVE AND DAMAGE COVERED HIS LACK OF FAST NORMALS, NOW ITS GONE AND BUZZ SAW AND HAT TRICK IS WAY WORSE NOW. HE NEEDS THAT GOD DAMN FAST NORMALS FOR BETTER UP CLOSE GAME AND EX HAT SHOULD BE +10 IN TEMP. LOOK ON JAX FOR EXAMPLE IM NOT SAYING JAX IS BROKE BUT LAO WOULD NOT BE OP WITH FAST NORMALS HE DOESNT HAVE MIX UPS IN TEMP AND HAT TRICK, ONLY IN BUZZ SAW BUT IN BUZZ SAW HE DOESNT HAVE BIG DAMAGE.
ONLY FAST NORMALS WOULD HELP TO ALL VARIATIONS IN GENERAL AND TEMP EX HAT SHOULD BE +10, REG -6. THATS ALL.

Spoiler

YES ITS ON CAPS LOCK...SO WHAT? IF I WANT WROTE ON CAPS LOCK, I DO! FUCK OFF LITTLE BITCHES! TYM IS PATHETIC LIKE WHOLE THIS PATHETIC COUNTRY AND WORLD! TOO MANY BAD PPLS AND VERY FEW GOOD PPLS. ALMOST EVERYONE THINKS HE IS SMART ASS. STUPID ARROGANT SELFISH BITCHES AND ASSHOLES! WHATS WRONG WITH YOU PPL. BE HUMBLE.

 

[Goat-City]

SO THEY DIDNT NERFED TAKEDAS +32 KUNAI, BUFFED KITANA AGAIN GIVING TO HER TRUE BLOCKSTRINGS BUT THEY TOOK FROM LAO HIS +12 AND NOT EVEN BUFFED HIS NORMALS...

Lao was significantly better than both. And I'd be ok with them making EX hat +10 or +12 again as long as they make orbital hat do 3% damage instead of 5% to compensate. Also I think his teleport 3 should hit high but that's not a big deal. And 44 should be an easier link.

 

[THTB]

It's pretty meh. Gotta guess right 10 times in a round to win basically.

I would say welcome to Reptile, but I forget Nimble exists lol.

 

[Pygmy_Potato]

Alright, with 12 frame leeway, let's compile a list of characters of who can get through B321~EX hat spin with a full combo with this change:

Kung Lao himself
Kitana
Tanya
Johnny Cage
Ferra/Torr (Lackey)
Quan Chi (Warlock)
Goro

Maybe some KP2 variations and..... thats it.

Don't like that? Don't follow up B321 with EX hat spin. Sorry that a blockstring gap now functions like every other gap in the game, which I might add, all have gaps to armor through and punish much larger than 12 frames.

Again, if you want absolutely guaranteed plus frames after B321, pick Buzzsaw.

+
Cassie (Brawler)
Jacqui
Jax
Kano
Shinnok
Sub-Zero
Reptile
Sonya

Probably more. If you're going to be condescending, you should put more effort into your research. Those are characters that could punish if there's a 12f gap. Keep in mind he had to respect slower armor before but could still block the armored move on a read instead of committing to pressure. These would be pure punishes. Before it was only Cassie and Reptile, now it's about half the cast. It's a significant change.

 

[TheGoldenJew]

+
Cassie (Brawler)
Jacqui
Jax
Kano
Shinnok
Sub-Zero
Reptile
Sonya

Probably more. If you're going to be condescending, you should put more effort into your research. Those are characters that could punish if there's a 12f gap. Keep in mind he had to respect slower armor before but could still block the armored move on a read instead of committing to pressure. These would be pure punishes. Before it was only Cassie and Reptile, now it's about half the cast. It's a significant change.

was gonna post this myself but I'm done engaging...thank you sir

 

[STRYKIE]

+
Cassie (Brawler)
Jacqui
Jax
Kano
Shinnok
Sub-Zero
Reptile
Sonya

Probably more. If you're going to be condescending, you should put more effort into your research. Those are characters that could punish if there's a 12f gap. Keep in mind he had to respect slower armor before but could still block the armored move on a read instead of committing to pressure. These would be pure punishes. Before it was only Cassie and Reptile, now it's about half the cast. It's a significant change.

was gonna post this myself but I'm done engaging...thank you sir

- Doesn't want me to be condescending

- Tells me to put more effort into research

- Failed to read/remember that subject was engaged concerning who can interrupt with a full combo

 

[Pygmy_Potato]

Fair enough. Still your tone made it out to be no big deal and judging others for being concerned when it is a hefty change.

 

[I Am The LK]

I'm in this forum because I like drama. Notice me

 

[Evil_Riu48]

i never thought i ll see the day in which players will complain about their characters only been at +7 after a combo starter on block this is proof that mkx characters are completely OP

 

[Pygmy_Potato]

i never thought i ll see the day in which players will complain about their characters only been at +7 after a combo starter on block this is proof that mkx characters are completely OP

Didn't you play Sonya in MK9?

 

[DarksydeDash]

I'm just checking back here to see if there are hat trick changes. Anything?

 

[VoyagersRevenge]

ex hat +7
ji2 heavily changed
scaling on all combos but mostly changes on 44 links, does like 3-4% less on some combos as in f2 hat, 44, run, b321 spin, jik 21
ex spin now sucks you in on block

and yeah I don't think he needed any of this except the ex spin thing

I think I played you with my Commando Kano the other night. They were good fights.

 

[VoyagersRevenge]

I'm just checking back here to see if there are hat trick changes. Anything?

End corner combos in hard knock down or 11212 juggle and toss low hat. At B4 range, call the hat back forcing the opponent to block. Non ex hat call is plus 4 about so if your opponent doesn't armor or have meter it's more pressure opportunity. Enough to dish out B4 or F2. It's really good stuff. Can't do this consistently in the original build.

 

[Desperdicio]

Alright, with 12 frame leeway, let's compile a list of characters of who can get through B321~EX hat spin with a full combo with this change:

Kung Lao himself
Kitana
Tanya
Johnny Cage
Ferra/Torr (Lackey)
Quan Chi (Warlock)
Goro

Maybe some KP2 variations and..... thats it.

Don't like that? Don't follow up B321 with EX hat spin. Sorry that a blockstring gap now functions like every other gap in the game, which I might add, all have gaps to armor through and punish much larger than 12 frames.

Again, if you want absolutely guaranteed plus frames after B321, pick Buzzsaw.

To be honest, I didn't know you could block the reversal when doing that string, so it was already out of my arsenal. I'm fine with it being full combo punishable when cancelled into EX Hat Spin. It's OK to have to think about what string to use next, especially when B321 is so good by itself.

I would say welcome to Reptile, but I forget Nimble exists lol.

The Reptile downplay is real.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Lao was significantly better than both. And I'd be ok with them making EX hat +10 or +12 again as long as they make orbital hat do 3% damage instead of 5% to compensate. Also I think his teleport 3 should hit high but that's not a big deal. And 44 should be an easier link.

Tele3 is -6 on block, no cancel advantage, very slow to react to the uber fast projectiles, hits mid, doesn't combo on its way up, really bad tracking,and you still want it nerfed.

That is just how bad some people that loses to Lao actually are.

Also you need to consider that outside from tele 2 which in many cases misses the target because he emerges way further from the opponent to a range where his disjointed hitbox will miss, tele 3 is only good on tempest, because he can use it with hat spin and make it a bit difficult to stuff out, but still can be blown with armor because tele 3 has no block advantage, neither blockstun.


Also the more they nerf the hitbox of the hat due j2 cry, his tele2, b2, b4 and all hat based moves are also becoming trash across the 3 variations, and those are not being adjusted to compensate the nerfs tempest got.

 

[STRYKIE]

So after playing around with Buzzsaw a bit in the beta, I noticed:

J2's hitbox: I'm pretty sure all they did was remove the phantom hitbox part of it, because, as far as what you should be using J2 for, yeah, it all still very much works.

44 scaling: looks the same to me, still getting the same damage I did before when 44 can be used as a punish. So whatever damage scaling Tempest now has, it's probably attributable to Tempest's hat spin.

Something about low hat also seems different but I can't put a finger on it.

And nobody is armoring through B321 low hat so it seems it still jails.

So yeah, I'm sure Buzzsaw/Hat Trick will still get their share of improvements in the final KP2 patch.

 

[Big Pampering]

i never thought i ll see the day in which players will complain about their characters only been at +7 after a combo starter on block this is proof that mkx characters are completely OP

The whole problem is that you look at ex hat spin as a launcher and not as a tool to get frame advantage. Nobody throws it out raw to fish for combos. Youre misleading yourself by looking at it that way.

 

[Big Pampering]

So after playing around with Buzzsaw a bit in the beta, I noticed:

J2's hitbox: I'm pretty sure all they did was remove the phantom hitbox part of it, because, as far as what you should be using J2 for, yeah, it all still very much works.

44 scaling: looks the same to me, still getting the same damage I did before when 44 can be used as a punish. So whatever damage scaling Tempest now has, it's probably attributable to Tempest's hat spin.

Something about low hat also seems different but I can't put a finger on it.

And nobody is armoring through B321 low hat so it seems it still jails.

So yeah, I'm sure Buzzsaw/Hat Trick will still get their share of improvements in the final KP2 patch.

Is it maybe that low hat gets thrown closer from kung laos feet? Because that got changed some patches ago, people could run over low hat at dash range like it wasnt on the screen at all. That got changed. Is the damage still 5%?

 

[Tweedy]

I would say welcome to Reptile, but I forget Nimble exists lol.

All variations of Reptile do more damage than Buzzsaw. He also has safe mix ups that lead to combos. Buzzsaw's "mix ups" do 8-10% damage.

 

[STRYKIE]

Is it maybe that low hat gets thrown closer from kung laos feet? Because that got changed some patches ago, people could run over low hat at dash range like it wasnt on the screen at all. That got changed. Is the damage still 5%?

Something about the recovery feels different but it's hard to say if it feels better or worse. Maybe it really is just the new netcode doing this to me lol. And yeah it's still 5% by itself.

 

[xRCx Ryan]

Lao vs mileena matchup feels really difficult now after the beta changes to both characters

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Might be too early to tell but I feel like in the current stage of the beta, I think liu, cage, jax, sub, and takeda are better than lao

 

[Desperdicio]

Might be too early to tell but I feel like in the current stage of the beta, I think liu, cage, jax, sub, and takeda are better than lao

A-List was very underrated already, though. At least Jax was mentioned among the S tier by some people. Now that F3 cancels into command grab both on hit and on block, God help us.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

A-List was very underrated already, though. At least Jax was mentioned among the S tier by some people. Now that F3 cancels into command grab both on hit and on block, God help us.

Yeah I already thought wrestler was his best variation now it's gonna be so good.

 

[Goat-City]

Tele3 is -6 on block, no cancel advantage, very slow to react to the uber fast projectiles, hits mid, doesn't combo on its way up, really bad tracking,and you still want it nerfed.

That is just how bad some people that loses to Lao actually are.

Also you need to consider that outside from tele 2 which in many cases misses the target because he emerges way further from the opponent to a range where his disjointed hitbox will miss, tele 3 is only good on tempest, because he can use it with hat spin and make it a bit difficult to stuff out, but still can be blown with armor because tele 3 has no block advantage, neither blockstun.


Also the more they nerf the hitbox of the hat due j2 cry, his tele2, b2, b4 and all hat based moves are also becoming trash across the 3 variations, and those are not being adjusted to compensate the nerfs tempest got.

I just thought it should hit high to give teleport 4 a use since they're both mids. Have his other hat based moves had their hitboxes nerfed?