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Breakthrough - Kano [EO Beta Closed] Kano Beta Changes Discussion

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ETC AdmiralAugustus

Grabble Frazzled
Commando...his AA is possibly better than cyber...
I'm curious to what you mean by this. Do you mean that his AA game (including the damage conversions, etc) is better than cyber? Or are you talking about his AA tools? Because don't they have the same (roughly) AA tools?
 

NHDR

Noob
I believe Commando has choke as well. Never played the variation but I believe that's the AA difference.
 

MsMiharo

Kuff Bano
I'm curious to what you mean by this. Do you mean that his AA game (including the damage conversions, etc) is better than cyber? Or are you talking about his AA tools? Because don't they have the same (roughly) AA tools?
Choke (ex ex choke) are better than air laser imo. Can be mb for armour. Has crazy hitbox. Will beat njp on your wu. Is pretty fast. You can use it to stuff things like kotals JI1 where b1 gets beat.
 

Noobe

Noob
Commando does fine vs pressure characters that like to press buttons. Jax, KL, LK,Goro, etc. Also his keep away game is almost as good as cyber. Knives are good, his AA is possibly better than cyber. Also he has the best wake up game in the entire roster. 2 safe armored moves, check. Armored combo starter, check. Unblockable armored grabs where you can choose sides, check. Meterless parry, check. He's really hard to corner which is an important trait in this game.

What AA does he have that's better than cyber? Cyber has two armored starters. Are you talking about his straight ball? You knkw that's universal. Best wake up in the game? I doubt it. Cutthroats ex pumped up i think is the best and safest. Eeeeh parrys are nice but they have a big down side. Overall all you're going on are rads as far as i can tell since you aren't elaborating. Everything you're mentioning as far as i can tell can be heavily punished if read right. And the reward isn't in his favor. Unless you want to actually describe what you mean then you haven't said anything.
 

Noobe

Noob
Choke (ex ex choke) are better than air laser imo. Can be mb for armour. Has crazy hitbox. Will beat njp on your wu. Is pretty fast. You can use it to stuff things like kotals JI1 where b1 gets beat.
Yea laser is better. But as far as an anti air it's whatever. I still think it's just better for combos. It doesn't do much damage. It's hard to follow up if you mb it. But it is fast though. He has way better AA. B1, D2, air ball, ex straight ball for hard knock down, run under whiff punish B1. Yea kotals ji1 wins if its out first but there are ways around that.
 
This was nerfed since the very begin of the beta when he was released. Hopefully in kp2 it is fixed because this will make his up ball useless since anyone can literally just do a d3 or d4 and low profile it. As far as the b1 3. Honestly they need to put that gap back on because he needs eat.
Huh? He needs the gap? Please tell me this was a typo. Lol
 
Wrong. Actually the cons between the two is that commando is way to meter dependent. While cyber only needs 1 bar in the corner to do upwards of 49%. Commando needs meter to get 30% which cyber does with no bar.


The projectile is better in cyber then commando. And commando needs to many reads while cyber is solid and can control many match ups very well with his projectile. Honestly i can't think of a match up that commando wins that cyber can't do even better. If anyone can help let me know.

As far as i can tell the pressure up close is similar but cyber plays it way better just because of his fast projectile. And cyber can bait xrays and break armor with ex knives which is a plus.
Eh. Not fond of your comparison of Commando and Cybernetic. Seems highly bias and not fully fleshed out when it comes to the new commando. You are comparing cybernetic's corner damage of max 50% 1 bar to commando's "under 30" MIDSCREEN METERLESS damage. Obviously he gets around the same if not more meterless in corner. Having the command grab option after SAFE pokes, b1, etc is scary. The mixups are much stronger. Cybernetic, while gaining a lot from system changes also lost a big pressure tool. The grab. That change hurt him a lot. Sure he can just throw the other way but usually that other way keeps your back to the corner, commando can put his opponent on either side he wants. The pressure upclose is not even close! Commando wins it by a mile. Anyone being "pressured" by a cybernetic Kano in beta does not know matchup well. It's pseudo pressure. Lol And yes ex knives are great on reads to blow up stuff. Always has been. Even on bad guesses you are plus 5 (with a bar wasted to do nothing guaranteed or any real threatning mixup). Overall I think cybernetic still is the go to for a matchup such as grandmaster sub. But tbh with the other two variations buffed, those will be his go to in most matchups. Cybernetic and Commando are about even in most matchups with cutthroat having the most favorable matchups.
 

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
Wrong. Actually the cons between the two is that commando is way to meter dependent. While cyber only needs 1 bar in the corner to do upwards of 49%. Commando needs meter to get 30% which cyber does with no bar.


The projectile is better in cyber then commando. And commando needs to many reads while cyber is solid and can control many match ups very well with his projectile. Honestly i can't think of a match up that commando wins that cyber can't do even better. If anyone can help let me know.

As far as i can tell the pressure up close is similar but cyber plays it way better just because of his fast projectile. And cyber can bait xrays and break armor with ex knives which is a plus.
The beta changes have massively helped him. He has a far better pressure game and has the ability to force the opponent into more reads, as well as better damage and better footsies now. If you haven't played the beta you need to get your hands on him when the patch comes.
 

ando1184

Noob
Hopefully by the time the patch does hit home, we can get some cyber buffs/changes as well. After seeing the new characters like leather face I think this variation's zoning should be improved in some way, shape, or form, if his zoning was really meant to be the focal point of the variation. Right now he still feels like he has the most "plain" way of zoning in this game, other characters get high + frames for the bar, or a low/in air version of their projectile, or can control its arc, etc... Kano throws a mid knife that does low damage, low frame advantage, has no armor or unique properties, nor does he have any unique properties to his strings to identify him as a rushdown/mixup variation to open up the opponent. He still "appears and plays" like he's stuck in the middle of the 2 styles. Sorry for the rant guys, I'm not screaming for a buff Kano post or anything. I just would like cyber to get something too since he's kinda just "there" at this point and I'd like a improved and better balanced character across the board. I'm a Kano player and like playing all of Kano.
 

MsMiharo

Kuff Bano
Yea laser is better. But as far as an anti air it's whatever. I still think it's just better for combos. It doesn't do much damage. It's hard to follow up if you mb it. But it is fast though. He has way better AA. B1, D2, air ball, ex straight ball for hard knock down, run under whiff punish B1. Yea kotals ji1 wins if its out first but there are ways around that.
I don't get your post. I just said commando has better AA and you're arguing against that with tools they share? Choke is better than air laser for AA, other than that they have the same tools thus Commando has slightly better AA game?
 

kantboy-2

Ripper
Nothing better than grabbing a person who thought they were out of the range of Kano's AA game with a dash into choke. ;)

I still love wake up into MB grab with Commando. Can't wait for the beta; I'm going grab-only for the first few matches just because. :joker:
 

Noobe

Noob
Hopefully by the time the patch does hit home, we can get some cyber buffs/changes as well. After seeing the new characters like leather face I think this variation's zoning should be improved in some way, shape, or form, if his zoning was really meant to be the focal point of the variation. Right now he still feels like he has the most "plain" way of zoning in this game, other characters get high + frames for the bar, or a low/in air version of their projectile, or can control its arc, etc... Kano throws a mid knife that does low damage, low frame advantage, has no armor or unique properties, nor does he have any unique properties to his strings to identify him as a rushdown/mixup variation to open up the opponent. He still "appears and plays" like he's stuck in the middle of the 2 styles. Sorry for the rant guys, I'm not screaming for a buff Kano post or anything. I just would like cyber to get something too since he's kinda just "there" at this point and I'd like a improved and better balanced character across the board. I'm a Kano player and like playing all of Kano.

I actually agree with what you're saying here.
 

Noobe

Noob
Eh. Not fond of your comparison of Commando and Cybernetic. Seems highly bias and not fully fleshed out when it comes to the new commando. You are comparing cybernetic's corner damage of max 50% 1 bar to commando's "under 30" MIDSCREEN METERLESS damage. Obviously he gets around the same if not more meterless in corner. Having the command grab option after SAFE pokes, b1, etc is scary. The mixups are much stronger. Cybernetic, while gaining a lot from system changes also lost a big pressure tool. The grab. That change hurt him a lot. Sure he can just throw the other way but usually that other way keeps your back to the corner, commando can put his opponent on either side he wants. The pressure upclose is not even close! Commando wins it by a mile. Anyone being "pressured" by a cybernetic Kano in beta does not know matchup well. It's pseudo pressure. Lol And yes ex knives are great on reads to blow up stuff. Always has been. Even on bad guesses you are plus 5 (with a bar wasted to do nothing guaranteed or any real threatning mixup). Overall I think cybernetic still is the go to for a matchup such as grandmaster sub. But tbh with the other two variations buffed, those will be his go to in most matchups. Cybernetic and Commando are about even in most matchups with cutthroat having the most favorable matchups.


Yea i agree. It feels ugly while using cutthroat vs grandmaster. It doesn't take much at any skill level for a sub player to control the match. How much does commando do in the corner? I don't think he gets as much because he has no ways of extending combos. But i could be wrong. I tried out commando in the beta and it's nice don't get me wrong but I just don't get the whole hype for him. And unfortunately i haven't run into any commandos online either. If anyone has the beta and wants to play some games let me know.
 

thlityoursloat

kick kick
Yea i agree. It feels ugly while using cutthroat vs grandmaster. It doesn't take much at any skill level for a sub player to control the match. How much does commando do in the corner? I don't think he gets as much because he has no ways of extending combos. But i could be wrong. I tried out commando in the beta and it's nice don't get me wrong but I just don't get the whole hype for him. And unfortunately i haven't run into any commandos online either. If anyone has the beta and wants to play some games let me know.
Commando Kano has the best meterless corner combos, B312 B312 112 rib sex does 40% and B312 32 112 rib sex does 37% but is way easier and more consistent.
 

FlappyDaniel

Snappin' spines all day e'ry day.
of course you'll never hit anybody starting with a B312 in commando because anybody who knows anything will always block low. You can carry to the corner with B13xxEx ball cancel, b312 11 112, rib break. or something like that thought, and it's much more likely. I still always try to fish for the B312 in the corner but it's just very unlikely to catch anybody not blocking low.

edit: though in beta we now have 2 things to possibly help with that. You could do just regular throws like you already would to possibly condition somebody to simply crouch (not block) and then catch them with a b312 once you realize this. or in beta now you can punish them for crouch blocking by Instant air balling for the OH.
 

Noobe

Noob
Commando Kano has the best meterless corner combos, B312 B312 112 rib sex does 40% and B312 32 112 rib sex does 37% but is way easier and more consistent.
Hmmm cyber does with the same combo except using straight ball as an ender which is better for hard knock down. Which he should do as well. But has the option to extend his damage to 48-49% percent with a bar. Seems they both do the same damage. The difference is that cyber can get a full combo without using ex dragon ball off of b1 or b3. So the damage is the similar. The setup potential is different.
 

Apex Kano

Kano Commando main MKX
They nerf the combo command grabs!!! It was fun while it lasted. You must commit a 1 meter to do it now. Such a horrible damn thing to do just when Commando felt like more threatening.. 1,1,2 into grabs is pure fun and I can keep a meter for breakers or counters. Now I have to waste more meter to Tick grab!?!?! Tick grab must cause me a meter, WTF!
 

villainous monk

Terrible times breed terrible things, my lord.
Yeah that's what they claimed. I'll wait till release of XL to confirm for myself but yeah. I'm not sure as of yet and if it's true.

I'm not happy about it.
 

Apex Kano

Kano Commando main MKX
No Cyber buffs again! Same thing mention was his up laser and that was last pacth. Up ball is universally changed. But Cyber just really more damage on knives, maybe even a Low attack grenade throw(why can't I throw those things). I mean that's the point of playing Cyber, after all! Throwing knives, but nope no buffs. CT is the clear winner for Kano now. Damn nerf the command comboing pissed me off.
 

villainous monk

Terrible times breed terrible things, my lord.
I can't wait to see the patch notes. I NEED too see the notes.

Cyber looks like it got shafted for major changes but maybe the minor ones will do something.

Up laser being faster holds out hope for better recovery on hit. Maybe were able to run in or njp's in the corner for an extension of punishment like it should've been Intended for.
 
good thing the combo into grabs are nerfed, its way more balance and less auto pilot now(even more auto than tanya) in a game like mkx where its easy to get in this kind of thing should not exist
 

ETC AdmiralAugustus

Grabble Frazzled
They nerf the combo command grabs!!! It was fun while it lasted. You must commit a 1 meter to do it now. Such a horrible damn thing to do just when Commando felt like more threatening.. 1,1,2 into grabs is pure fun and I can keep a meter for breakers or counters. Now I have to waste more meter to Tick grab!?!?! Tick grab must cause me a meter, WTF!
You don't mean tick throws right? You mean hit confirms into grab?
 
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