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Match Footage - Dualist Edenian Queen against the King, Kitana Prime(Kitana) vs EL1TE(Dualist)

Darth-Nero

Come Thunder! Come Lightning!
Then I clearly need to learn how to deal with said gimmicks. Enlighten me, please. :D
It's not a gimmick, Am no expert on Dualist either but my guess is that he gets a frame trap (similar to blood god totems) when he changes between dark and light during f213 block string. You can armor out but you have to respect his b12 that will stuff your armor.
 

Derptile

RIP Ex Smash
There is no gap in F123, they changed that in like the second patch. Go test it, and even murk agreed that dualist's corner game is better than dragons fire.
Oh fuck nvm that then, I always end that with DB2 or a FBRC. You got me there lol

But I'm still not gonna go full circle and say dualist's corner game is better than Dragon's Fire, that's too much.
 

evolution07

It's too soon to get cocky.
Hey @FOREVER EL1TE , are you familiar with how to do flame fist windmill punch cancels into another ex windmill punch? I know it's a tight one frame link, and I always lose to that stuff so wanted to get some training in on how to properly deal with it up close.
 
Hey @FOREVER EL1TE , are you familiar with how to do flame fist windmill punch cancels into another ex windmill punch? I know it's a tight one frame link, and I always lose to that stuff so wanted to get some training in on how to properly deal with it up close.
I personally can't do it because I don't play ff enough to practice it. But I would just ask a ff main what options you have during that moment.
 

Rozalin1780

Good? Bad? I'm the one with the fans
Very interesting and entertaining matches to watch. Very insightful for me as I've wondered how to approach this matchup as Assassin. It would seem that a single mistake costs you the game, as evidenced by the one match where KP dropped a combo at a near flawless victory which then resulted in being pressured to death. Had to be frustrating. Goes to show how hard it is for Kitana to deal with these intense pressure match ups.

Though on a side note, it makes me feel somewhat better about dropping combos myself if even pro players do it on occasion. Also noticed a missed input where KP does a Rising Blades to end a blocked string. That happens a lot to me online when I try 21~lift and it comes out 21~Rising Blades. Not trying to demean KP's skill in any way. My butt is still sore from the beating I took from KP in ranked match earlier this week, lol.

It's not a gimmick, Am no expert on Dualist either but my guess is that he gets a frame trap (similar to blood god totems) when he changes between dark and light during f213 block string. You can armor out but you have to respect his b12 that will stuff your armor.
I was wondering why KP didn't attempt to EX Assassin Strike a single time to get out of corner pressure. I knew there HAD to be a reason for that -- didn't realize B12 stuffs armor. Good to know. :)
 

evolution07

It's too soon to get cocky.
I personally can't do it because I don't play ff enough to practice it. But I would just ask a ff main what options you have during that moment.
I'm pretty familiar with the Dualist MU since a friend of mine here plays him exclusively. I'd like to get some sets in with you on PS4 and get more MU knowledge if you don't mind :)
 

Bruno-NeoSpace

They see me zonin', they hatin'
1. His orbs have a much better hitbox, it was buffed
2. His corner game is better than dragons fire and flame fist
3. Him and dragons fire have pretty much the same armor options the only exception is that you can burn more meter to be safe.
4. there is no gap in f123

@Eldriken play a dualist or ask me for dualist specific stuff
1 - I tested his orbs hitbox and I did not feel any difference. Can you prove it?

2 - No way his corner game is better than Dragon's Fire and Flame Fist:

Damage and combos: about the meterless damage on block, Flame Fist has the best; the meterless damage of the BnBs are in the same level most of the times - Dragon's Fire does around 35%, Flame Fist does around 34% and Dualist does around 36%; 1 bar BnB combos Dragon's Fire and Dualist are in the same level most of the times and Flame Fist has the best damage - Dragon's Fire and Dualist does around 40%, Flame Fist does around 49%;
In the difficulty to do the BnBs Dragon's Fire has the best links most of the times - Dragon's Fire has around 8 frames to link most of the times, Flame Fist has around 6 frames to link and Dualist has around 5 frames to link most of the times; Dragon's Fire and Flame Fist does not need to spend bars to do many of their combos because they can use F4 to do their 30%+ meterless combos.

Frame traps and mixups: Dragon's Fire has better frame traps - F213 FBRC is +13 / F213 DD1 FBF4 is a true blockstring / F213 SS is +5 / F213 EX FBRC is +17 / F213 EX DD1 is +8 / EX fireball is +15;
Dragon's Fire has the best mixups - F213 FBRC or any hella plus stuff into F4 or B2 or Throw or more fireball run cancel pressure to be hella plus again or a stagger; DF Flying kick is more safe, he can MB it to be 0 on block and +26 on hit; DF can MB the bicycle kick.

Projectiles and reversals: Flame Fist has the strongest fireballs, the faster low fireball and regular fireball. Dragon's Fire has the fastest air fireball and it has an EX version. Flame Fist has a parry and one of the best special moves in the game which is the EX windmill punches (put the video in 5:17
).
Dualist has the best EX fireball which is +15 on block and it combos in the corner but it has pushback, it is the slowest EX fireball of Liu Kang so if your do some strings into EX fireball, there might have a gap. Dualist has orbs but they have a lot of issues - regular orb, low orb and air orb has small region of hit, all orbs explodes in some cenarios, all orbs starts a little bit far from Liu Kang and the air orb is as useless as the healing.
 
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Orangutan

WutanOrangutan
Am I the only one that reckons flamefist is the strongest ? I feel he's more match-up dependent like dualist, with dragons fire being the best utility variation. FF has the best zoning, best armour breaking, and best reversals/wakeups by a landslide
 

Bruno-NeoSpace

They see me zonin', they hatin'
Am I the only one that reckons flamefist is the strongest ? I feel he's more match-up dependent like dualist, with dragons fire being the best utility variation. FF has the best zoning, best armour breaking, and best reversals/wakeups by a landslide
Yeah. Flame Fist is in the same level of Dragon's Fire. Flame Fist is VERY underrated.