SALTY don't get it...effort should be giving positive results

[cheschifodisito]

ok i play a list...spent a lot of time in the lab practicing dash cancels and stuff...and then i get online and get bodied by 50/50s...picked up smoke and in that online set i did better than with a list....i don't know, just doesn't seem fair to me....why should i play a list with the risk of getting bodied for screwing up my cancels or not expecting armor, when i can just pick smoke and spam the same vortex over and over and win? further more smoke has like what? 1 loosing match up?

 

[Daemantalo]

The thought of being vortex 50/50'ed to death scares people more than being chipped to death by blockstrings, ran cancels, and + on hit moves. It's natural. Some players just guess completely wrong and your character, like Smoke, might shine in that match-up against that particular player. It's the year old MKX argument of 50/50s vs. insane pressure. Some players hate fighting the former, some the latter. I guarantee you at a higher level, a Johnny Cage A-List will bring you further than a Smoke can... but yeah, I agree, Cage has a high consequence for missing a Shadow Kick Run Cancel lol

 

[Shaikhuzzaman]

Spam a vortex...

 

[HateMe!]

Smoke's pressure/vortex has gaps, properly done A-List pressure doesn't.

 

[cheschifodisito]

The thought of being vortex 50/50'ed to death scares people more than being chipped to death by blockstrings, ran cancels, and + on hit moves. It's natural. Some players just guess completely wrong and your character, like Smoke, might shine in that match-up against that particular player. It's the year old MKX argument of 50/50s vs. insane pressure. Some players hate fighting the former, some the latter. I guarantee you at a higher level, a Johnny Cage A-List will bring you further than a Smoke can... but yeah, I agree, Cage has a high consequence for missing a Shadow Kick Run Cancel lol

i would see sonya beeing not as good as johnny but apparenly she's considered to be top 3 mainly because of her insane 50/50 game....same thing for kano..i mean u get cornered and lose like half a bar for guessing wrong.... what i mean is: why would u go for insane pressure if u have such a great way of opening ur opponent up with a safe 50/50? i don't see the point

 

[cheschifodisito]

Smoke's pressure/vortex has gaps, properly done A-List pressure doesn't.

there are many other chars with safe 50/50s and no gaps though

 

[llabslb]

Neutral > everything

In this case, neutral > execution

Just because you can do the fanciest cancels and all does not automatically mean you're good. Those who choose to play 'high execution' characters like myself need to understand that we're limited in the sense that our characters require slightly more effort than others in terms of having access to basic bnbs, pressure etc. Once you have the basic execution required to play affectively with A-List, it's scary, but understand that it's YOUR fault if your execution goes bad and also understand that's its also YOUR fault if you can't open your opponent up.

 

[Blewdew]

cancels aren't everything, work on your fundamentals if you think only characters with 50/50's do good.

 

[cheschifodisito]

Neutral > everything

In this case, neutral > execution

Just because you can do the fanciest cancels and all does not automatically mean you're good. Those who choose to play 'high execution' characters like myself need to understand that we're limited in the sense that our characters require slightly more effort than others in terms of having access to basic bnbs, pressure etc. Once you have the basic execution required to play affectively with A-List, it's scary, but understand that it's YOUR fault if your execution goes bad and also understand that's its also YOUR fault if you can't open your opponent up.

i could be top player in the world, but i can't guess everytime my opponent touches me....a list at high levels IS scary...but let's be honest, u work hard for a tournament and cause u guess wrong u go home? think to Kano...u said u play him...u know what im saying.... yes IT IS my fault it i screw up but i'm not referring to that

 

[cheschifodisito]

cancels aren't everything, work on your fundamentals if you think only characters with 50/50's do good.

i didn't say they are the only one to do good

 

[Eddy Wang]

Welcome to MKX

 

[Meep8345]

Well pick up a 50/50 monster then and work on your neutral. Also a list is a 50/50 monster hate when people act like he isn't... S1 f2,11 d4,d3, 113,11 f2/d3, and s1 throw. You can fuzzy 11 but you can mess it up sometimes but what really throws everyone off is 11 d4/d3, and s1 f2. Really I think you just need to work on your fundamentals. Also that's just how the game is, you guess wrong and you just die.

 

[Blewdew]

well it sounds like you complain because you can't autopilot with his cancels. this character has great spacing, an amazing d4, f3, good armor and can even cancel on fucking whiff. yes his pressure is what this character does but he also benefits from a very good neutral game. as I said work on your fundamentals and you'll get the rewards you're looking for.

 

[Meep8345]

Oh and lab the smoke MU. When he doesn't have meter or you in the corner he doesn't combo from his overhead really and smoke does have gaps.

 

[Blewdew]

Oh and lab the smoke MU. When he doesn't have meter or you in the corner he doesn't combo from his overhead really and smoke does have gaps.

you can do b1,trident if you're brave enough lol

 

[Meep8345]

you can do b1,trident if you're brave enough lol

Well yeah but a smoke player is going to want to play it safe unless he has that read. Would be way safer to just throw them since really who is going to neutral duck in a vortex lol.

 

[HateMe!]

you can do b1,trident if you're brave enough lol

b+1/3~EX Trident = no gaps, -5, opponent's turn
b+1/3~EX Smoke bomb = gap, but +frames if opponent guesses right
b+1/3~Trident = no gaps, full combo punish
b+1/3~Smoke bomb = gap, less punishable

Smoke's 'vortex' is actually pretty well designed imo. It's not just looping same shit into foolproof safe 50/50s.

 

[Blewdew]

b+1/3~EX Trident = no gaps, -5, opponent's turn
b+1/3~EX Smoke bomb = gap, but +frames if opponent guesses right
b+1/3~Trident = no gaps, full combo punish
b+1/3~Smoke bomb = gap, less punishable

Smoke's 'vortex' is actually pretty well designed imo. It's not just looping same shit into foolproof safe 50/50s.

yeah but he was talking about no meter options.
@Meep8345 just wanted to say that there is at least the oh option without meter

 

[ArmedCalf]

Work on cancels and the neutral - Johnny is dumb af

 

[HateMe!]

yeah but he was talking about no meter options.
@Meep8345 just wanted to say that there is at least the oh option without meter

I know, just brought it up because it looks like most people's opinion on Smoke is that he's some vortex-monster, when imo it's actually pretty balanced.

 

[FinalBoss_FGC]

With Johnny, most characters don't get a turn as long as you have the meter to spend...and you usually will.

The 50/50s in the game is enough to get caught up and demoralized by but Cage shuts people down dude.

And fighting games don't reward effort, it rewards knowledge. Never forget that.

 

[GOOD DRAGON]

ok i play a list...spent a lot of time in the lab practicing dash cancels and stuff...and then i get online and get bodied by 50/50s...picked up smoke and in that online set i did better than with a list....i don't know, just doesn't seem fair to me....why should i play a list with the risk of getting bodied for screwing up my cancels or not expecting armor, when i can just pick smoke and spam the same vortex over and over and win? further more smoke has like what? 1 loosing match up?

From what your saying ("dash cancels") it sound like your not even doing the cancels right. You also said ("screwing up my cancels or not expecting armor") which give's me the impression your not jailing the cancels and when your opponent armours in-between your gaps and punishing you for your fraudulence your getting salty. Well i think @llabslb said it best when he said - its YOUR fault.

 

[llabslb]

i could be top player in the world, but i can't guess everytime my opponent touches me....a list at high levels IS scary...but let's be honest, u work hard for a tournament and cause u guess wrong u go home? think to Kano...u said u play him...u know what im saying.... yes IT IS my fault it i screw up but i'm not referring to that

I'm more than happy to give you advice on the A-List v Cut throat match up, I'm sure everyone else is as well. You need to accept that there are 50/50's in this game but you also need to understand that against most 50/50 characters you can still play neutral against. There's not much you can do about the 50/50 aspect, but work on everything else like neutral and establishing match up specific game plans. Don't flow chart your way through this game. In my opinion, there's only a select few (War God, Sonya, Alien) that you could barley play neutral against, the rest of the cast you can.