Does Kenshi make other zoning characters "obsolete"?

[-Deadman-]

If anyone was sleeping on Kenshi before Final Round, its safe to say they aren't anymore.
After seeing what high-level Kenshi play is, I'm starting to question the viability of other
zoning-based characters like Ermac and Noob, and possibly Freddy... if anyone other than M2Dave mained him. (sorry)

Do you guys feel that picking Ermac/Noob/etc over Kenshi would be a liability?
Are Kenshi's tools clearly superior to the other zoning based characters?
Or is it simply "apples vs oranges" ?


I need a solid backup character, but I'm concerned that I may be wasting my time.

 

[jokey77]

I think, you cannot compare most of these characters.

For me, there are two factors that define a good zoner:

a) ranged damage potential
b) ability to lock the opponent down and keep them guessing at distance (frametraps)

So far I still think, Freddy has better damage potential and better frametraps. However at jump distance and in close Kenshi may be stronger.

 

[ragnar0kz28]

Noob is obsoleet Freddy is still number 1 spammer but not as hard to get in as kenshy since Freddy has no armor

 

[MashPotatoTower]

Hear that guys some guy had a bad match against Kenshi. NERF!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Ashenar]

Kenshi nurf? Nah HE NEEDS ITZ!

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

As good as kenshi is...its important to remember how deep this game is.

For example Ashenar...you remember our match at FR? NW vs kenshi is 5-5 and i think pig with agree. thats why he went mileena on Big D i believe.

on the other hand freddy is one of NW overall worst MU in the game. Hitboxes are also a huge factor. against kabal if he gets in, kabal can do 2ndc inf but on freddy that is impossible due to hitbox. noob i agree is obsolete...not much he can do that kenshi and freddy can't do better. ermac does better against kabal imo than kenshi does. but kenshi has better MU across the board.

its hard to compare but i think kenshi covers the most MU out of all the zoners. however I still think Freddy is very unexplored. i know for a fact i will never lose to a kitana in a tourney ever again. FACT!

 

[THTB]

Not really. Each character zones in a particular way that meshes better with different people. It's possible that Freddy or Kenshi don't fit your playstyle one bit, but Noob does. Or none of them do but Ermac's does.

Numbers are only half the equation.

 

[Faded Dreams V]

Freddy outzones Kenshi. I actually played Pig's Kenshi with Freddy once. Even though Freddy outzones him, I think Kenshi slightly wins simply because Freddy's rushdown and up close game goes down the drain. Honestly, all he can do is zone in this MU, and the Nightmare Stance becomes limited.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

NMS screws NW..."cries"

but thats what raiden is for. "yea!"

 

[Wemfs]

Noob gets blown up by Kenshi so bad. I seriously don't know what to do in the MU.

 

[GamerBlake90]

Noob gets blown up by Kenshi so bad. I seriously don't know what to do in the MU.

I beg to differ. Noob Saibot vs. Kenshi is at 5-5.

I've tried that match-up some weeks ago and it produced remarkable results...until my opponent adapted to my style and shifted the tide in his favor, but it became evident that Kenshi has to play a completely different game against a solid Noob.

You see, for Kenshi to be at his best, he needs to stay on the ground and at a distance. The way to beat him is to force him to take it close and personal with you, and keeping opponents locked out is what Noob seems to excel at. Force Kenshi to stay on the move and you can take control of the fight with Noob.

Black Holes are your friend! Keep mixing the ranges and forcing Kenshi to guess and jump. This gives you a chance to nail either a Shadow Tackle or Shadow Slide as an anti-air. Stay just outside of the range of his Spirit Charge and keep mixing those shadows up.

If Kenshi tries to reflect your shadows, it actually won't end in his favor. The Shadow Tackle will run towards the background of the arena and disintegrate if reflected, same for the Shadow Slide. They can still be absorbed with EX Reflect, but nevertheless this can give Noob an edge in the fight.

Even better? EX Shadow Tackles and EX Shadow Slides seem to beat out Kenshi's reflect. I just now tested this using two controllers, but if I'm wrong here, someone else can correct me.

And of course, you've got the Upknee ready for in case Kenshi gets unnerved and tries to jump in. If you yourself get in with the chance to pressure Kenshi, throw that motherfucker as soon as you can. Personally I like to cancel a low poke into a variety of specials whenever I'm up in his face and it usually works well, but the throw is my recommendation for reasons stated below this paragraph.

The only things you don't want to happen is Kenshi getting up in your face and/or cornering you. If he does that, Noob is pretty fucked. You'll have to be very patient and look for the hole in his offense so you can escape. What with Kenshi having armor and Noob lacking in it, the face-to-face game is where Kenshi wins. I'd say Noob's d3 gives him a bit of a chance at getting away, but even then it's not much of one.

Anyone else familiar with this match-up is free to add to this post.

 

[Theme]

Does anyone here have a link to final round? Just wondering.

Also, Ive seen a a few high level Kenshi play before and I must say, it is most definitely scarier than skilled Noob Saibot or skilled Ermac. Kenshi just seems like overall better.

 

[M2Dave]

Does Kenshi make every other "pure" zoning character obsolete? With the exception of Freddy, absolutely. Freddy is a lot more dominant full screen while Kenshi is a lot more dominant mid range, which is reflected in their respective match ups (i.e., compare Freddy vs Kabal to Kenshi vs Kabal, Freddy vs Mileena to Kenshi vs Mileena, etc.). Freddy and Kenshi are top ten characters. Ermac, Kano, Noob, and Sindel are not and will never be unless they receive buffs. Do these characters have one or two match ups in which they outperform Freddy or Kenshi? Possibly, but they are not better overall, which is what matters at a high level and at major tournaments.

In fact, I have begun using Kenshi as a secondary character, and I hope to be ready come MLG. Kenshi is a worthy secondary character for a Freddy player and vice versa (hint Pig Of The Hut for future vs Kabal battles). Both parties are able to learn a new character without radically changing their gameplay styles.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

From just a zoning perspective:

1. Freddy.
2. Kenshi.
3. Kabal.
4. Liu Kang.
5. Everybody else.

Blind man don't fuck around. He's incredible.

 

[G4S KT]

The way to beat him is to force him to take it close and personal with you
...

The only things you don't want to happen is Kenshi getting up in your face

 

[NogunYesknife]

From just a zoning perspective:

1. Freddy.
2. Kenshi.
3. Kabal.
4. Liu Kang.
5. Everybody else.

Blind man don't fuck around. He's incredible.

Where is noob and sindel?

 

[GamerBlake90]

Let me reword myself...

What I meant was...

You don't want Kenshi actually being up in your face, let alone the corner, but you want him to try to come towards you so that Noob can inflict his damage.

Is that more to your liking? Good, then try not to waste my time quoting posts with the intent to troll.

 

[G4S KT]

Let me reword myself...

What I meant was...

You don't want Kenshi actually being up in your face, let alone the corner, but you want him to try to come towards you so that Noob can inflict his damage.

Is that more to your liking? Good, then try not to waste my time quoting posts with the intent to troll.

You should really get some thicker skin if you take that incredibly tiny amount of dickishness personally. This is the internet and this site is like an oasis in a sea of horrible personal attacks.

And it's not a waste of your time; that wording is much better because now your MU explanation doesn't say one thing and the exact opposite later. You have to be clear if you want people to understand what you're talking about.

 

[Z-911-Z]

While I'm definitely not arguing that Noob is as good as Freddy or Kenshi, he does have a few things those two characters wish they had.

Upknee, his throw, and a 50/50 zoning mixup.

 

[NogunYesknife]

You should really get some thicker skin if you take that incredibly tiny amount of dickishness personally. This is the internet and this site is like an oasis in a sea of horrible personal attacks.

And it's not a waste of your time; that wording is much better because now your MU explanation doesn't say one thing and the exact opposite later. You have to be clear if you want people to understand what you're talking about.

Damn, You're Good.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Damn, You're Good.

KT has skin made of leather, ive seen it and almost touched it

 

[NogunYesknife]

While I'm definitely not arguing that Noob is as good as Freddy or Kenshi, he does have a few things those two characters wish they had.

Upknee, his throw, and a 50/50 zoning mixup.

Yep noob is the most underrated zoner

 

[Espio]

Only if you want him to make them obsolete. People still do very well with most of the zoners in tournaments.

The matches that give most zoners trouble...like Kung Lao or Smoke still give Kenshi trouble, Kenshi has more to work with than many other zoners, but it's not like he covers match ups that other zoners cannot deal with effectively.

 

[-Deadman-]

So pretty much, its apples and oranges.
Good, I didn't want to end up pidgeon-holed to Kenshi as a sub.
I like Kenshi, but he's not for me. I like playing bastards.
Kenshi's too much of a good egg.

And if Freddy, bastard as he is, was actually a MK character... like Tremor, I could play him.
Yea I'm that shallow : )

::Edit::
Also If I had to use Kenshi in a major, the meter management alone would make me have a stroke

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

I want people to use kenshi is a tourney more

then they will understand he isnt so easy to use