Does Joker have gaps in his pressure/strings?

[DeftMonk]

So I think most of us (unless you work at NRS) realize joker has issues. For those who don't know about this one in particular feel free to use this to enjoy whalloping your poor friend who is a joker main. Every string except 3,3 (16 frame startup doesnt jail after jump in 1 or 2) is either unsafe or has a gap in it aftter the first hit. This cannot be remedied by confirming into a special on block as all of his special cancels have a gap and do not jail. So this means 11 113 112 21 212 213 f23 f232 f21 are all open to a reversal if you time it correctly. If the joker player is cancelling into anything (other than crowbar depending on the string/character you are playing this may be safe but it too is open to being interrupted by many specials when used as a reversal or gun which is easily low profiled since it is a high) he is open to your favorite bnb that begins with a special or mb b3.

Honestly the joker has many issues be it whiffing mids or his mb gun allowing the second hit to be blocked in certain situations ( or just flat out whiffing when cancelling into gun after a normal on hit). I just decided to post this particular issue since strings with gaps or cancelling into a special with gaps seems to be a hot item as of late. His trait is (after this patch coming) far and away the worst in the game. If anyone on TYM is having issues beating the joker feel free to post why and we will help you dissect whats going on and show how wack this char is so that NRS will possibly be open to throwing us some sort of love other than nerfing some of those better than us.

 

[neveradestroyer]

Oh!, it's sarcasm!. Phew!, I really bite that one

 

[Vengeance135]

For real, any problems against joker, just ask

 

[Vengeance135]

@DeftMonk

The saltiness in your messages on our discord is brought to life in this great video of how bad joker is lol some of these strings a lot of characters can just back dash out of or neutral jump for a full combo or armor through like we have all said for so long.

Yet the community refuses to learn the MU lol it's sad we have to spoon feed them this knowledge.

 

[DeftMonk]

@DeftMonk

The saltiness in your messages on our discord is brought to life in this great video of how bad joker is lol some of these strings a lot of characters can just back dash out of or neutral jump for a full combo or armor through like we have all said for so long.

Yet the community refuses to learn the MU lol it's sad we have to spoon feed them this knowledge.

I mean we all know not many people play joker so when you do play one, the guy usually gets away with murder (similar to sonic fox cancelling 32 into teeth vs forever king repeatedly and not getting full combo punished everytime). I don't mind exposing our crap if it will help the NRS devs beat their neighborhood joker player who is bodying them (otherwise why on earth did they think we are fine and canary/robin/supergirl/everyone else get buffs or whiffing issues fixed).

 

[Vengeance135]

I mean we all know not many people play joker so when you do play one, the guy usually gets away with murder (similar to sonic fox cancelling 32 into teeth vs forever king repeatedly and not getting full combo punished everytime). I don't mind exposing our crap if it will help the NRS devs beat their neighborhood joker player who is bodying them (otherwise why on earth did they think we are fine and canary/robin/supergirl/everyone else get buffs or whiffing issues fixed).

Didn't you hear? With all these problems we have been talming about for years now... Joker is fine though. Let's call this the jokers curse since they refuse to buff him.

#JokersCurse.

 

[Jhonnykiller45]

What should I be doing as my main Green Lantern? 113, 21, 212 and F21crowbar blow up his backdash on reversal; 112, 11crowbar, F212crowbar blow up his super. 21crowbar blows up both his super and his backdash. Couldn't really punish any of it consistenly.

 

[Tweedy]

Gaps aren't as big of a deal on dis game imo.

 

[Vengeance135]

Gaps aren't as big of a deal on dis game imo.

You're trolling right? Lol

 

[Vengeance135]

What should I be doing as my main Green Lantern? 113, 21, 212 and F21crowbar blow up his backdash on reversal; 112, 11crowbar, F212crowbar blow up his super. 21crowbar blows up both his super and his backdash. Couldn't really punish any of it consistenly.

Stop back dashing if it's catching you. Just block and after you block one of those they are negative so it's your turn to apply pressure.

 

[Tweedy]

You're trolling right? Lol

I assume you think i'm referencing Inj 1? I'm referencing the last nrs game aka mkx and gaps were a way bigger deal on that game. I put imo but honestly it's fact.

 

[Vengeance135]

I assume you think i'm referencing Inj 1? I'm referencing the last nrs game aka mkx and gaps were a way bigger deal on that game. I put imo but honestly it's fact.

No we are talking about joker specifically in both injustice 1 and 2. If people actually learned the MU, they would beat him easily. Instead, they get freed up by gimmicks then say "wow jokers fine" and the character suffers again. In summary, our point is the community is lazy. I can't speak on MKX because I never played it.

 

[G4S Pharaoh]

No we are talking about joker specifically in both injustice 1 and 2. If people actually learned the MU, they would beat him easily. Instead, they get freed up by gimmicks then say "wow jokers fine" and the character suffers again. In summary, our point is the community is lazy. I can't speak on MKX because I never played it.

I think I played you a while back bro. You got an amazing joker. Set was like 5-5 and I had to leave, but I wanna play you more cause I need that mu.

 

[Vengeance135]

I think I played you a while back bro. You got an amazing joker. Set was like 5-5 and I had to leave, but I wanna play you more cause I need that mu.

If you want more games add me sir, or tell me your PSN and I'll add you later on.

My PSN Vengeance135

 

[G4S Pharaoh]

If you want more games add me sir, or tell me your PSN and I'll add you later on.

My PSN Vengeance135

my psn: PharaohLite. Lantern main

 

[DeftMonk]

What should I be doing as my main Green Lantern? 113, 21, 212 and F21crowbar blow up his backdash on reversal; 112, 11crowbar, F212crowbar blow up his super. 21crowbar blows up both his super and his backdash. Couldn't really punish any of it consistenly.

Ya lanterns super is pretty wack anything blows it up.

 

[Jugghead]

You're trolling right? Lol

From what I've noticed, for the most part gaps only consistently get blown up at the highest (I rarely do it as I only know the well known ones). Let's say 90% (just a number, lets not debate how many people are at a high level) of people don't play at a skill level where they can consistently blow up gaps. How does NRS treat this when deciding who to buff or nerf? Do they say, we'll Joker is good and fun and successful for that 90% so he's fine, or do they say nobody in that 10% (highest level) play him, so we should buff him? Does NRS ever release any insight into this?

 

[JustPressingButtons]

Bane reversals thru gaps like it's nothing

 

[JustPressingButtons]

The biggest problem imo joker has is

1. MIDS whiffing when they shouldn't
2. The MB Gun being a high

Those two fixed and he wouldn't be as bad as he is. It would be nice if he had an actual advancing string too.

 

[Zoidberg747]

All gaps are not equal in this game. Some gaps like Cold's f23 are incredibly small and can only be supered or backdashed out of, and it just isn't worth it to try and go for it.

I don't remember Joker's gaps all too well but from what I remember you can easily catch people backdashing by canceling the string early into gas can or crowbar. The only gaps in this game that are legitimately bad are the ones where you can poke in between them. I know Joker's overhead string is like that.

 

[Vengeance135]

From what I've noticed, for the most part gaps only consistently get blown up at the highest (I rarely do it as I only know the well known ones). Let's say 90% (just a number, lets not debate how many people are at a high level) of people don't play at a skill level where they can consistently blow up gaps. How does NRS treat this when deciding who to buff or nerf? Do they say, we'll Joker is good and fun and successful for that 90% so he's fine, or do they say nobody in that 10% (highest level) play him, so we should buff him? Does NRS ever release any insight into this?

The same could be said for supergirl and robin and they got theirs fixed... Jokers have been consistent for years. He has consistently been one of the worse characters, if not the worst character in the game. You figure they would actually look as to why. Again the problem is people don't learn jokers weakness, they just complain that they lost and he's fine. If they actually took the time to learn the MU, they would see for themselves how easy he can be dealt with.


Another problem is within the joker community itself. His biggest problem is nobody wants to play him when they realize he's bad. So many players have left because once they knew how he struggled and NRS does nothing to help, they are like screw this. Nobody playing him means you will rarely see him in competitive play or casually online. So when you do come across the occasional one and you get blown up by lack of knowledge, people complain it's the character being so good.

Example: forever king vs sonic fox. King got bodied 3-0 and he stated on a public forum he didn't know the MU. Everybody was like wow the joker community needs to level up, look at this joker, while sonic fox was getting away with murder and playing really sloppy on top of it. Had king known the MU, it would be been different. While that match was going on, the commentators were talking about joker this and joker that and half of what they were saying was wrong, again due to lack of knowledge.

The joker community (or what's left of it) doesn't need to level up, this community needs to. Time and time again, a joker blows someone up and you hear "wow he's so good," or "wow the community needs to level up." Like bruh, any character in this game can blow you up if you don't know the MU. It's that simple.

Not trying to sound like a dick btw lol

 

[Vengeance135]

All gaps are not equal in this game. Some gaps like Cold's f23 are incredibly small and can only be supered or backdashed out of, and it just isn't worth it to try and go for it.

I don't remember Joker's gaps all too well but from what I remember you can easily catch people backdashing by canceling the string early into gas can or crowbar. The only gaps in this game that are legitimately bad are the ones where you can poke in between them. I know Joker's overhead string is like that.

You can neutral jump gas can in all strings and full combo punish and poke out or armor out of a lot of his strings.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

The same could be said for supergirl and robin and they got theirs fixed... Jokers have been consistent for years.

Supergirl didn't get her any of her gaps fixed. She just got safety on a nonlaunching gapless option she already had.

The gaps are still there.

 

[Zoidberg747]

You can neutral jump gas can in all strings and full combo punish and poke out or armor out of a lot of his strings.

Not if you are expecting them to finish the string so you can backdash. That's my point.

I'm not saying Joker is good, but there are ways around this.

 

[Vengeance135]

Not if you are expecting them to finish the string so you can backdash. That's my point.

I'm not saying Joker is good, but there are ways around this.

Gas can is reactable. It's slow. All you have to do is wait the string out. I do it in joker mirrors often. Crowbar is also reactable and there's a gap there. There are multiple ways of dealing with his block string enders because none of them are true block strings. I think it would be easier to explain what I'm saying if you just told me what character you use. I'll tell you your options.