Do Vortex Characters need Their vortex?

[TKB]

You do realise she has an inescapable reset right?

I don't see how you could think KF would be bad without her vortex but BG "doesn't need it". Without vortex; BG's meterless damage is meh, her neutral game is weak, her zoning is meh, she can't deal with up close pressure and she becomes just as meter dependent as (if not more than) KF.

Without vortex KF still has; decent oki setups, great meterless damage, great midscreen damage, amazing trait damage, 70%+ inescapable reset, nice corner game, meter dependancy doesn't change, has parry and fast normals to deal with up close pressure and, a strong neutral game with slide, daggers and b1.

Yes I am extremely familiar with her freeze reset and I never said she was bad without vortex, but she would definitely be a lot less scary. I have quite a bit of frost exp thanks to @RunwayMafia

Batgirl doesn't have a ton of meterless damage but she has unreactable 50/50s and some seriously strong tools. She gets easy 40% midscreen with 1 bar and her corner game is flat out stupid. I'm sure I'm not as good as you with batgirl but I did main the character so I know what she's capable of, and IMO without her vortex she would still be really good.

 

[Akromaniac27]

WoWo true vortex is after Tiara*MB ON HIT, and after a hitstun move. That aside, her other stuff and OTG is a guessing ambiguous game in which she STILL needs to guess right even on hit or else its back to chasing. Not to mention the OTG doesn't grant a combo like Superman's or Jokers(even though its relatively small, you can still rinse and repeat it) unless she MBs it and only in the corner

 

[Barrogh]

Scorpion in MK9 had a punishable vortex, look how that turned out lawl.

I'm not sure if that was the problem with character tbh. It was just an option Scorpion sometimes had to resort to because of awkward neutral game and disadvantage he consistently had up close thanks to his pokes. Then there's an argument that higly visible 18 frames b2 was reactable (I wouldn't say it is for me, but who am I to argue with tournament players?), breaking the vortex itself.

Other than that I was ok with the concept itself: a decision to gamble when you feel there's no other way for you to win the round. Goes both ways (although IIRC you could make low option safe by ending with takedown, although no vortex for you if you guess right, but there's risk/reward I guess) and one can break out of it as long as he has meter, so isn't entirely unfair if you ask me.

So in my opinion, MK9 Scorpion's vortex was way better designed than extremities of BG's or IGAU Scorp's.