[Discussion] "This character is super easy to use"

[Circus]

Execution isn't any more impressive for spectators than any other style of fighting. Snake Eyes had some of the hypest, most memorable matches in all of SF4 and Zangief's gameplan is as simple as it gets. But people knew that actually pulling it off was difficult. No one cared about the execution motions for SPD, they cared that he actually had to get in against his opponent and pull it off. And thus people were on their feet yelling and screaming for a guy who was walking in and blocking for 30 seconds just to land 1-2 moves.

Meanwhile in MK9 people became bored of watching players counterpick with Kabal and it was far more exciting to see someone try to make a run with Baraka, Noob, Ermac, Sub Zero etc. After the first couple months of the Kabal era, no one got excited just because you had to mash your controller constantly for NDC pressure.

Hype comes from drama, mind games and risk/reward, not from counting the number of controller inputs you need to get something done.

While I do agree with you to a certain extent, you can't deny that many people have a differing opinion than you here. There's no wrong answer to this discussion, which is the point I was trying to make initially. It really is up to the developer to find a perfect balance of easy to pick up but still have things that the pros could do to show their personality. This doesn't mean you have to be an execution god to be successful, but the option should be there for people who crave that extra bit of satisfaction and fulfillment.

Snake Eyes is a great example because, like you said, what was most impressive was his neutral game. But lets seriously not forget the fact that Snake Eyes is infamous for being able to do consistent walk-up 720 Piledrivers with Gief ON PAD. I'm honestly lol'ing here just thinking about how crazy that is.

Great play is always going to be hype. It's important imo to note that flashy stuff that's hard to pull off will always garner tons of hype too. There's not just one way for people to get hype because not everyone is the same.

Execution isn't the ONLY way to get a huge burst reaction like this one, but moments like these are just undeniable and it's what some people like P2W crave:

 

[CrimsonShadow]

While I do agree with you to a certain extent, you can't deny that many people have a differing opinion than you here. There's no wrong answer to this discussion, which is the point I was trying to make initially. It really is up to the developer to find a perfect balance of easy to pick up but still have things that the pros could do to show their personality. This doesn't mean you have to be an execution god to be successful, but the option should be there for people who crave that extra bit of satisfaction and fulfillment.

The thing is, I'm accounting for opinions of different people and their tastes. If you think high execution is hype, great. If you think patience is hype, great. If you think zoning is amazing, that's cool too.

But it's categorically wrong to say that a *single style of character* is, as a fact, the only valid archetype for a fighting game character. It's also categorically wrong to say that a character with simple execution factually isn't exciting.

What makes fighting games interesting is that they are diverse. And the goal is to have enough different types of characters that there's something for everyone. The guy who wants 5 different stances and 7 inputs per second can choose a character that fits that mold. And the person who prefers straightfoward characters with solid fundamentals-based gameplay can pick theirs.

The way to accomodate everyone's different tastes is to simply give everyone something they can enjoy. It's the game balance that allows everyone to play in the way they like most and still compete.

 

[Slips]

the man. the myth. the legend. Do you think top tier characters that require little investment should exist?

You're legendary yourself sir lol. I think a good way to balance characters that on paper are clearly better than others should have a higher execution barrier yes. If esports wants to show-off the skill of what it takes to be good at fighting games there should be something to show-off. Nothing's more satisfying to watch than a pro player who has completely mastered their character in ways most if not anyone else has.

Like I said before though, the skill should be in the nuances of the game, while the cool flashy stuff should be relatively easy.

 

[GLoRToR]

You're legendary yourself sir lol. I think a good way to balance characters that on paper are clearly better than others should have a higher execution barrier yes. If esports wants to show-off the skill of what it takes to be good at fighting games there should be something to show-off. Nothing's more satisfying to watch than a pro player who has completely mastered their character in ways most if not anyone else has.

Like I said before though, the skill should be in the nuances of the game, while the cool flashy stuff should be relatively easy.

"Hard to use but you can't block any of his moves" is not game balance, man.
knimean.

 

[Slips]

"Hard to use but you can't block any of his moves" is not game balance, man.
knimean.

wut

 

[GLoRToR]

wut

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

You're legendary yourself sir lol. I think a good way to balance characters that on paper are clearly better than others should have a higher execution barrier yes. If esports wants to show-off the skill of what it takes to be good at fighting games there should be something to show-off. Nothing's more satisfying to watch than a pro player who has completely mastered their character in ways most if not anyone else has.

Like I said before though, the skill should be in the nuances of the game, while the cool flashy stuff should be relatively easy.

You're legendary yourself sir lol. I think a good way to balance characters that on paper are clearly better than others should have a higher execution barrier yes. If esports wants to show-off the skill of what it takes to be good at fighting games there should be something to show-off. Nothing's more satisfying to watch than a pro player who has completely mastered their character in ways most if not anyone else has.

Like I said before though, the skill should be in the nuances of the game, while the cool flashy stuff should be relatively easy.

I agree man. I feel like nrs games have been getting progressively easier to play since mk9. It’s probably a business decision but I want a character that I hv to spend months in a lab with to master the intricacies.

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

I lol’ed

 

[Scoot Magee]

Execution barriers are important. It allows players to differentiate themselves from others who play the same character. It's also rewarding to practice and become more efficient at something that's hard to do.

Theres a lot of different types of players out there. Some are better with execution than they are at reading other players. Some live to study frames and etc. The game should really allow players to play to their strengths. If you eliminate the need for high execution for high damage or specific techniques, you end up making a less diverse game imo.

 

[neveradestroyer]

Check out Axeice's android 17. This shows that having a top mid... I mean not uber top tier high execution character is a good idea. This character is normally trash but at the highest level becomes a good character (Not broken tough) and a pleasure for everyone that watches his matches. Here's the catch.
Matches with this character at high level becomes the hypest thing ever in DBFZ.

 

[x TeeJay o]

Check out Axeice's android 17. This shows that having a top mid... I mean not uber top tier high execution character is a good idea. This character is normally trash but at the highest level becomes a good character (Not broken tough) and a pleasure for everyone that watches his matches. Here's the catch.
Matches with this character at high level becomes the hypest thing ever in DBFZ.

Nice. Very impressive. He/She must have put tons of hours into him because that man is legit one of the worst fg characters I have ever seen lol..

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

Nice. Very impressive. He/She must have put tons of hours into him because that man is legit one of the worst fg characters I have ever seen lol..

In competitive play there is a lot to be said about character unfamiliarity. Even if a character is bad it is often unclear what makes them if you do not play vs it a lot. We have seen it happen a lot in the nrs scene specially early in a games life.

 

[x TeeJay o]

In competitive play there is a lot to be said about character unfamiliarity. Even if a character is bad it is often unclear what makes them if you do not play vs it a lot. We have seen it happen a lot in the nrs scene specially early in a games life.

Oh yeah for sure. But I have a well respected anime player who happens to be one of my close friends and he put in mad work with 17. He's just badly designed tbh its a lot wrong with him. Those matches were a combination of the 17 players skill, and the other players unfamiliarity with 17 possibly. I think if we see two 17 mains go at it you'll probably see his issues a bit more clear or better yet, if they played each other 1v1 17 mirror.