Discussion Discussing the variation system in MKX

[IBreakemoffI]

I was one in the beginning who said variations were the worse idea ever! Just google my GT Ibreakemoffi and read all the hate lol. My stance has not changed. It's the dumbest thing to have a costume change and suddenly have different tools and what is three variations of a characters I hate? It's a waste of space. Most people don't even switch variations they just move to another character. I feel the roster would've been better and with more characters and I will bet any of you mkx would've been way better without this "state of the art" variation system. Which didn't they say they got the idea from street fighter or something?

There is no way to truly balance and then the fact that they buffed certain variations to get players to play just shows you there is so much waste of space with variations with dust in them. They then buff these which never had a true specialist playin them meaning we end up with over buffed trash. Just saying I think there are certain matchups that no matter what variation you choose your character won't win. So please for the love of god in mk11 bring us the traditional roster no extra options. And just get back to makinga great mk and not trying to over due it with something as STUPID as variations. Not 2 just a roster full of characters and you pick your character that's what you get. Don't tell me it adds depth it adds over complication. There are cool ideas in each but I'd much rather have it be pick your character get your character. Quit adding these variations and it makes me
Sick hearing all of you praise it like it was a good idea. ITS NOT! Make Mortal Kombat Great Again!!!

 

[Prinz]

If MKX had 100 different characters, instead of 3 variations of one, it'd be even more difficult to learn the match-ups. Also they give the possibility to stay true to the character, but choose one of the gamaplay styles that siuts the player personally. What I've learned from the variation system is that you can have a character with a playstyle you like, and still not hate the other styles. I love Commando Kano for the grappler that he is, but I don't hate Cutthroat because of his 50/50 aspect, because, you know, he's Kano too. I hope they keep the variations for MK11 as they kept the x-rays for MKX. But I hope they don't make them for counter picking, but rather viable variations of different gameplay styles of the same character.

 

[Prinz]

I was one in the beginning who said variations were the worse idea ever! Just google my GT Ibreakemoffi and read all the hate lol. My stance has not changed. It's the dumbest thing to have a costume change and suddenly have different tools and what is three variations of a characters I hate? It's a waste of space. Most people don't even switch variations they just move to another character. I feel the roster would've been better and with more characters and I will bet any of you mkx would've been way better without this "state of the art" variation system. Which didn't they say they got the idea from street fighter or something?

There is no way to truly balance and then the fact that they buffed certain variations to get players to play just shows you there is so much waste of space with variations with dust in them. They then buff these which never had a true specialist playin them meaning we end up with over buffed trash. Just saying I think there are certain matchups that no matter what variation you choose your character won't win. So please for the love of god in mk11 bring us the traditional roster no extra options. And just get back to makinga great mk and not trying to over due it with something as STUPID as variations. Not 2 just a roster full of characters and you pick your character that's what you get. Don't tell me it adds depth it adds over complication. There are cool ideas in each but I'd much rather have it be pick your character get your character. Quit adding these variations and it makes me
Sick hearing all of you praise it like it was a good idea. ITS NOT! Make Mortal Kombat Great Again!!!

With that avatar picture of yours, MK will never be great again

 

[CrimsonShadow]

I respectfully disagree. It's impossible to buff Subs shit variations to being sufficiently good by giving him actual plus strings because then he would be able lock you the hell out in Grandmaster way worse, so Cryo and Unbreakable are fucked over. You can't buff Give Tremor his Uprock and OTG back because Crystal is still really good, but it screws over Metallic and Aftershock. Predator having his standing 3 mid back would give HQT a very powerful 50/50 so they aren't gonna screw with that, but as a result the character gets poked out of everything and it hurts Hunter and Warrior even more because of HQT's far superior neutral. Completely separate characters would enable NRS to balance more freely and give characters what they actually need because the low to low-mid variations like Unbreakable, Hunter, and Metallic wouldn't have a symbiotic relationship with more powerful variations like Grandmaster, HQT, and Crystalline respectively. I can hardly fault NRS, this was a very ambitious thing that I actually loved at the start and up until around the XL patch, but it works for some characters, and not for there.

This isn't really true, though -- there are plenty of variation-specific strings in the engine. It is definitely possible to say, give a character some specific property on normals in one variation that doesn't apply to the others. Mileena, Takeda, Triborg, etc.

 

[IBreakemoffI]

With that avatar picture of yours, MK will never be great again

Hey what can I say I wish I could be Kaballin and I feel that variations and guest characters got in the way of that. I can't be a character loyalist. I also feel I would have rather had 100 individual characters rather than variations but by cutting them out boom they put 50 in and no one gets left out. Even less work no? I really feel mk would be better without variations. Said before it released I'll say after.

 

[Prinz]

Hey what can I say I wish I could be Kaballin and I feel that variations and guest characters got in the way of that. I can't be a character loyalist. I also feel I would have rather had 100 individual characters rather than variations but by cutting them out boom they put 50 in and no one gets left out. Even less work no? I really feel mk would be better without variations. Said before it released I'll say after.

I don't think variations and, moreso, guest characters have anything to do with Kabal not being in the game. It's the legacy he left that left him out. But hey, I feel your pain.

 

[Jynks]

The variation system is a success on all levels. and by far the greatest thing in MKx along with the new implementation of brutalities. I would defiantly like to see the 3 variations continue into Injustice and other MKs... it is that good an idea that it should basically become part of it like the way ice Clone is now part of Sub Zero or Reptile is a lizard.

The one thing I would look at is how Cyborg was made. The variation system and the idea of a single character being 3 characters is so perfect for a huge cast like MKIX. sub / noob / frost or goro / shiva / kintaro etc etc. With the idea of shared clans and fighting styles and factions you can thematically explain why base moves might be similar and use the variation system to have a MUCH larger cast and stop all the dlc crying bullshit.

Even so... Variations GOOD on all levels. Really hope it is in all future games.

 

[Red Reaper]

For the people saying 100 variations should be replaced with 100 characters... It doesn't work that way.

Changing a few things on a character is a good reuse of resources since they don't have to make an entirely new character model, normals, etc.
Different people work on different things in a studio like NRS..

I agree with what most people seem to be saying.. That 2 variations does seem like the optimal amount. Especially since out of 99 variations, 33 are lackluster or basically weaker versions of another character.

 

[Red Reaper]

The variation system is a success on all levels. and by far the greatest thing in MKx along with the new implementation of brutalities. I would defiantly like to see the 3 variations continue into Injustice and other MKs... it is that good an idea that it should basically become part of it like the way ice Clone is now part of Sub Zero or Reptile is a lizard.

The one thing I would look at is how Cyborg was made. The variation system and the idea of a single character being 3 characters is so perfect for a huge cast like MKIX. sub / noob / frost or goro / shiva / kintaro etc etc. With the idea of shared clans and fighting styles and factions you can thematically explain why base moves might be similar and use the variation system to have a MUCH larger cast and stop all the dlc crying bullshit.

Even so... Variations GOOD on all levels. Really hope it is in all future games.

It would be kool to see this in the next game with Mavado/Kabal being variations on the same base character. Wonder how far this kould be stretched though, like kould Liu Kang and Kai work?

Also, I am not sure how much this kan work if they have to change the models since Kintaro is definitely bigger than Sheeva, etc...
Changing the models and/or animations for too many things pretty much defeats the purpose.

 

[TyCarter35]

I think the variation system is a good idea on paper. But the creative issues and the number they did per character made balancing the game really difficult and NRS has done a respectable job balancing a game under these circumstances (tho they do overdo some buffs and nerfs) the problem is some don't really have viable variations and some barely have any "variation" like Reptile and some of certain characters were executed very well such as Kenshi, Scorpion, and Kano for example. Like everyone b4 has said, NRS should stick to 2 per character should it return in the next installment. Also I felt the problem with the variations had to do with the way the gameplay worked as the game is known to favor offense over defense and the variation system also had its fair share of misses due to the nature of the game in a way.

 

[Gilbagz]

Variation system is good
Some characters got the shorter end of the stick in regards to variations, but its great for character loyalists in that they can counter pick with counter picking per se. And the game is given a lot more depth in terms of content to learn and master. Furthermore mirror matches are a crap load more entertaining.

The cost of variations though was some more finnicky balancing, but even in that, the balance for MKX has turned out pretty well. The tier list is still fairly compressed with only a few unviable variations. Because of variations, some characters have been stripped down and character archetypes are much more prevalent. Despite this though, the majority of characters do feel fleshed out and substantial.

 

[juicepouch]

i think variations suck
@Gilbagz keep in mind that the meta isn't entirely evolved yet. During similar time periods in injustice and mk9 people lauded the balance as well, and it ended up being worse than everyone originally thought both times.

 

[ismael4790]

After 1 year of balancing, there are still many variations that are totally useless, not only because they are bad, but also because they simply don't offer anything worthy compared with any of their other two counterparts.

This is something nrs should take into account for next games. If adding only two variations helps to solve the problem, so be it.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

This isn't really true, though -- there are plenty of variation-specific strings in the engine. It is definitely possible to say, give a character some specific property on normals in one variation that doesn't apply to the others. Mileena, Takeda, Triborg, etc.

Ok sure they could give Cryomancer a whole bunch of new strings that would allow him to mount an offense, and Unbreakable strings with gaps to bait a parry without touching Grandmaster, but they won't. But they won't. They won't touch his strings now in those variations, because if grandmaster had good enough strings to cancel into clone safely on block, characters like Jax and Cassie would stand absolutely no chance against Grandmaster. If you play a character like Triborg, Kotal or Jax they you love the variation system, if you play Sub-Zero or Tremor then you got fucked over. Too many variations to balance and some characters DO have a symbiotic relationship within their variations.

 

[VerminatorX]

Two more fleshed out variations per character instead of three meh ones for next game.

 

[Gooberking]

Hey what can I say I wish I could be Kaballin and I feel that variations and guest characters got in the way of that. I can't be a character loyalist. I also feel I would have rather had 100 individual characters rather than variations but by cutting them out boom they put 50 in and no one gets left out. Even less work no? I really feel mk would be better without variations. Said before it released I'll say after.

I don't think variations got much in the way of character selection, and there are more barriers to tacking on crap tons of characters than them wasting their time with variations. It is rare for a game to just turn into a grab bag of every character that could be tossed in just because people think it would be cool to have infinite options or their one character love didn't end up on the game. They have to consider things like what characters fit in the story, what characters might be useful in drawing people to a later game by excluding them in a current game, and what can be done in the amount of time and money budgeted.

The asset footprint of an entirely new character is also bigger than a variation. Everything for a character has to be created for a new character from concept, modeling, sound design, animating, and hiring of voice actors. Making DLC? Get those actors back to do more intro dialog who's combinations grow rapidly with the character count but not variation count. When done all that content has to be put somewhere and MKX already has a huge data footprint. How do you create 100 character models with alt outfits at MKX quality and have them fit on a 50GB disc? You don't. You make alts for the few characters people are actually using, and you lower the overall quality bar so that the assets can fit. The PC Steam version rings in at 40GB without 4 characters and the Pit stage. I know its a digital world, but they do sell this thing on disc for the key platforms.

Variations are a practical way to add dimension to the game without all the overhead of raw character count. It's fine if you're not a fan of the concept, but if the main reason is you think it's a problem is that you believe we got screwed on character count, then I don't think the reality would have played out that way. 50+ character rosters are rare, and can even lead to quality and character uniqueness sacrifices. KOF and a couple of past MK games are about the only ones that have gotten crazy over character count (well Alpha 3), and there have been other MK games where we were all grumbling over missing characters and small rosters when there was no variation system to blame for it (MK5). On the other end, KOF 14 is on it's way with 50 characters and people are still complaining about missing characters.

 

[Nuovo_Cabjoy]

i think variations suck
@Gilbagz keep in mind that the meta isn't entirely evolved yet. During similar time periods in injustice and mk9 people lauded the balance as well, and it ended up being worse than everyone originally thought both times.

Yeah I think with that too, the time it'll take for the meta to get to these points is potentially longer in MKX purely because of the number of variations in the game. With NRS typically pushing out games every two years, we might not even get close to the potential peak of the meta before a new games shifts the crowd.

 

[IBreakemoffI]

I don't think variations got much in the way of character selection, and there are more barriers to tacking on crap tons of characters than them wasting their time with variations. It is rare for a game to just turn into a grab bag of every character that could be tossed in just because people think it would be cool to have infinite options or their one character love didn't end up on the game. They have to consider things like what characters fit in the story, what characters might be useful in drawing people to a later game by excluding them in a current game, and what can be done in the amount of time and money budgeted.

The asset footprint of an entirely new character is also bigger than a variation. Everything for a character has to be created for a new character from concept, modeling, sound design, animating, and hiring of voice actors. Making DLC? Get those actors back to do more intro dialog who's combinations grow rapidly with the character count but not variation count. When done all that content has to be put somewhere and MKX already has a huge data footprint. How do you create 100 character models with alt outfits at MKX quality and have them fit on a 50GB disc? You don't. You make alts for the few characters people are actually using, and you lower the overall quality bar so that the assets can fit. The PC Steam version rings in at 40GB without 4 characters and the Pit stage. I know its a digital world, but they do sell this thing on disc for the key platforms.

Variations are a practical way to add dimension to the game without all the overhead of raw character count. It's fine if you're not a fan of the concept, but if the main reason is you think it's a problem is that you believe we got screwed on character count, then I don't think the reality would have played out that way. 50+ character rosters are rare, and can even lead to quality and character uniqueness sacrifices. KOF and a couple of past MK games are about the only ones that have gotten crazy over character count (well Alpha 3), and there have been other MK games where we were all grumbling over missing characters and small rosters when there was no variation system to blame for it (MK5). On the other end, KOF 14 is on it's way with 50 characters and people are still complaining about missing characters.

Characters are what draw people in. How can you enjoy playin if you don't have what made you love your game? Kabal is that for me. I also had Four mains from mk9 who weren't in mkx. So hard to enjoy when I have nothing which made me love MK. They also threw on dumb descendant characters. Variations are a waste in my eyes bc what are three variations of a character no one plays? This game is better without what mkx tried to do.