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Dial Combos Vs Combo Linkers: Why does it bother you? part 2

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
I could have worded myself better and not have exaggerated as much, but even you said yourself that a 4th place player at Evo had a game plan similar to what I described (and again, got 4th place) and in the very next breath you said "it doesn't exist in SF". Also, I never said "consequentially, whiff punishing largely does not exist", because that would mean I was including special move whiff punishing doesn't exist, where I was just talking about normals. That was your inference, not my implication. Also, just look how many whiffed normals go on during the Snake Eyes/Fuudo matches. I'm not just pulling this out of thin air.
I really can't understand how it's so difficult to understand a basic sequence of

X tactic does not really exist in Y game
Player Z uses tactic X as a main gameplan in Y game

Therefore you're wrong. No shit, he whiff punished. The point I'm arguing is that such a thing does exist in SF4, stop trying to defend yourself by bringing up similar but irrelevant points or what you actually meant but said different.
 

GrandMasterson

The Netherrealm beckons
I really can't understand how it's so difficult to understand a basic sequence of

X tactic does not really exist in Y game
Player Z uses tactic X as a main gameplan in Y game

Therefore you're wrong. No shit, he whiff punished. The point I'm arguing is that such a thing does exist in SF4, stop trying to defend yourself by bringing up similar but irrelevant points or what you actually meant but said different.
I'll just end it here and say you're right
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
I could have worded myself better and not have exaggerated as much, but even you said yourself that a 4th place player at Evo had a game plan similar to what I described (and again, got 4th place) and in the very next breath you said "it doesn't exist in SF". Also, I never said "consequentially, whiff punishing largely does not exist", because that would mean I was including special move whiff punishing doesn't exist, where I was just talking about normals. That was your inference, not my implication. Also, just look how many whiffed normals go on during the Snake Eyes/Fuudo matches. I'm not just pulling this out of thin air.
Normals and Specials can be heavily whiff punished in SF, in matter of fact much more relevant than in Mk9 or Injustice, its hard to understand without playing.

But a Strong footsie game in Street Fighter pays far more than in MK9 or Injustice, mainly also because the release check system messes up with the inputs in MK and Injustice, i can guaranteed you that if you have a punish in range you can whiff punish lots of normals, specials in SF, its actually one of the most forms of core gamplay there, just watch how Sako's Ibuki plays.
 

VenomX-90

"On your Knees!"
@VenomX-90 do you actually understand the question you're asking? "dial combos vs combo linkers" isn't even a thing, especially when the SF series also makes use of "dial combos" (known as target strings) for easy and flashy sequences of moves.

The SF and MK combo linking systems seek to encourage and prevent the opposite things. The SF system aims to encourage ground combos while trying to artificially limit air/juggle combos, and the MK system tries to do the opposite. The BASIC explainations of the systems are below:

SF Ground Combos: If you hit the opponent while they're in recovery frames, the hit links and continues the combo. There's probably a few exceptions but that is the basics of it. Push-back is used to prevent infinites, i.e. eventually the opponent will be out of range to continue hitting them. This is where the creativity of the SF combo system happens.

SF Juggle Combos: A counter is kept behind the scenes which increases when certain moves are done. When this value gets too high other moves will no longer connect even if the hitbox connected with the hurt-box. This is the "artificial" prevention of air combos.

MK Ground Combos: If you hit the opponent while they're in recovery frames, the hit will link provided you cancelled the recovery of the previous move/string. The basic recovery cancel rules are: jump-ins can be cancelled into normals, strings and specials; normals and strings can be cancelled into specials; specials generally don't cancel into anything. This is how MK artificially prevents ground combos - it the follow-up move can always be blocked regardless of the hit advantage unless it was cancelled from a previous string. As the cancellation only works one way (jump-in->normal/string->special) the ground combo options are limited. This is also why most combo strings and specials launch the opponent - to allow you to continue the combo.

MK Juggle Combos: If the hitbox of the move connects with the hurtbox of the opponent, the move will connect and continue the combo. There is gravity and push-back scaling to prevent infinites (much like SF has push-back to prevent ground combo infinites) but there are no explicit mechanics preventing moves from linking even if they would hit. This is where the creativity of the MK combo system happens.


The actual question - the one that doesn't really get asked as people don't know what they're asking - should be: "Do you want/like/prefer the free-form ground combos in SF or the free-form juggle combos in MK?". The SF system allows you to link anything on the ground providing you have the frame advantage and the move connects, while the MK system allows you to link anything in the air providing the move connects. Both system's free-form combo areas can make use of linking normals and very strict timing to get maximum damage.




You can't easily hitconfirm with the MK/Injustice engine as there is no brief pause between the hits to show you what is happening. You work around this by following up with moves/strings that are both safe on hit and block and use that move/string to hit-confirm and cancel into the launching special to continue the combo.
See I didnt know the difference in specifics, now I know...
 

Decay

King of the Bill
Dial a combo looks cooler because they aren't just a random assortment of individually animated normals. They are animated as an entire string and they flow much nicer. Not to say it's a better thing but it does look much cleaner
 

Spletty

Grandmaster
i like both. dial a combo looks neater and leads to flashier combos, but links are more rewarding to me when i land a long combo. Both have positives, and work for their respective games.
 

EMPEROR PRYCE

WAR SEASON "THE WEAK EXPOSED!"
I'll just end it here and say you're right
He is right, they arent whiffing normals for no reason. It's all a mindgame to bait reactions and whiff punish. Chains make mk9 and injustice so damn stiff looking, sf4 looks more fluid and spontaneous, while mk9 and inj seem to follow a script, qnd first one to fuck up loses.
 

Rathalos

Play Monster Hunter!
3D strings are fine, I just don't like them in a 2D game, they feel awkward and clunky.
Especially in combination with NRS's weird input buffering they use.

I would prefer chain combos.
I wouldn't even mind if they did some weird combination of strings and chains. Like each character still had 5-8 combo strings, but they worked like chains.
 

K3DC

Noob
honestly i think it would be a step backwards. I love street fighter, but it annoys me the way you have to hitconfirm combos. I would rather confirm my combos with strings that are part of the combo instead f doing two jabs before my bnb. Also with strings, though nrs doesn't really take advantage of this, you can have several strings with their own purposes. A combo opener string, punishing string, block string, etc.