Defeating Reptile

[Gamin_Guru]

Today was the first time I ever successfully punished a blocked Elbow Dash with a full combo online. I was in shock.

 

[THTB]

Kabal's spin is such a different beast... >_> Led to combos AND worked as an anti-air. Considering how elbow works, they did learn lol.

The problem with meaties not beating elbow is because active frames are RIDICULOUSLY low in MK9...which sucks. It's not even a problem of elbow itself...but moreso that the idea of active frames on normals is nonexistant.

 

[Red]

im not here to complain...

and i see how a reptile can be beatin..,

but look at it like this ppl... the only move simliar to the elbow dash is kabals nomad dash...

now what if your reptile had the recovery frames of what kabals nomad dash has...

ya'll would be overloaded in anger... because yall say reptiles not a mobile character .. that his dash is too slow.. and i recognize that and see it..

so .. you rep players can udnerstand why ppl are at disagreement with the elbow dash.. imagine if kabals nomaddash had the same recovery frames as reptiles elbowdash..

OMG everyone would be angry with kabal.. and kabals dash speed is literally slower than reps...

so i think to would be a good solution to all of this.. would be speeding the regular dash (FF/forwardforward dash up) so reptile is more mobile... and by doing that.. they should add 2-4 startup and recovery frames to the elbow dash so players will use it wisely instead of repeating 2, 3, times in a row at times..
and add 3-6 more punish frames to the elbow dash when it is blocked...

to all the rep players.. does that sound like a even trade..

now .. if NRS did this.. my question is.. would it benefit reptiles combos any more.. he has very good combos already.. but would a faster dash even make larger combos and make reptile completely absurd how cyrax is with his 60, and 80% combos...

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also i dont think cyrax should be weakened.. cause i believe the execution of his combos are very risky. ive seen quite a few tournament play of very good cyrax's and the execution of the combo i think is like a 50/50 chance that they will execute it perfectly to complete the large combo.

Like I .. with cyrax.. its like war being a sniper.. when you miss you miss, it can totally mean the outcome of whether you or your opponent lives or dies.

 

[cabibi]

im not here to complain...

and i see how a reptile can be beatin..,

but look at it like this ppl... the only move simliar to the elbow dash is kabals nomad dash...

now what if your reptile had the recovery frames of what kabals nomad dash has...

ya'll would be overloaded in anger... because yall say reptiles not a mobile character .. that his dash is too slow.. and i recognize that and see it..

so .. you rep players can udnerstand why ppl are at disagreement with the elbow dash.. imagine if kabals nomaddash had the same recovery frames as reptiles elbowdash..

OMG everyone would be angry with kabal.. and kabals dash speed is literally slower than reps...

so i think to would be a good solution to all of this.. would be speeding the regular dash (FF/forwardforward dash up) so reptile is more mobile... and by doing that.. they should add 2-4 startup and recovery frames to the elbow dash so players will use it wisely instead of repeating 2, 3, times in a row at times..
and add 3-6 more punish frames to the elbow dash when it is blocked...

to all the rep players.. does that sound like a even trade..

now .. if NRS did this.. my question is.. would it benefit reptiles combos any more.. he has very good combos already.. but would a faster dash even make larger combos and make reptile completely absurd how cyrax is with his 60, and 80% combos...

__________________________________________________________________

also i dont think cyrax should be weakened.. cause i believe the execution of his combos are very risky. ive seen quite a few tournament play of very good cyrax's and the execution of the combo i think is like a 50/50 chance that they will execute it perfectly to complete the large combo.

Like I .. with cyrax.. its like war being a sniper.. when you miss you miss, it can totally mean the outcome of whether you or your opponent lives or dies.

here's the problem though... unlike kabal's spin, reptile's dash doesn't lead to a free combo. so it should be safer than kabal's version.

It should in no way be immune to punishment though, considering the fact that it has priority over ALOT.

I see where NRS was trying to go with it, but at least when online... instead of being a mini version of kabal's dash, it's more like a raiden teleport that deals damage and has hit priority.... which is fine I guess... but the window for punishment of it when online might as well be nonexistent.

I understand fighting games take a hit when playing online... but hell... even in SF4.. cammy had that damn cannon drill that was sort of like this... it was harder to punish online but it was still alot easier to punish than rep's dash.

 

[Red]

here's the problem though... unlike kabal's spin, reptile's dash doesn't lead to a free combo. so it should be safer than kabal's version.

It should in no way be immune to punishment though, considering the fact that it has priority over ALOT.

well yes of coarse it should be safer.. i think its already safe enough... I mean the speed on his sprint is idk.. meann..... If you blinked right as he elbowdashed.. i think your f*cked lol...

i do think it should be punishable for sure.. tho

but if it takes speeding up the FFdash speed in order to balance him right so they can weaken the elbow dash a little..
then i think its an even trade.. I mean the rep players say .. we wouldnt be mobile it all.. so why not do it.. weaken the edash and speed up the ff dash.. but for one thing.. if that actually happened.. and they took from this post and thought it was a good idea.. they better give rep a faster bbdash for sure cause OMG.. thats the slower than methusalem.

 

[Lyuben]

I have no issue with Dash frankly. I guess Reptilians respect the clone. I would.

If I play with smoke I have no ranged issue. They respect the shake. I would.

So some characters do better than others.

 

[THTB]

So you're saying nerf the startup of elbow to 8-10f...which allows characters to practically bully him in pressure, as well as potentially nerf his punishment and damage, and add recovery frames to the elbow on whiff...JUST so you can give him a faster normal dash in compensation? Do you not understand the problems already highlighted?

I'm done. I'm fucking done. I hate it when people suggest changes to characters they don't understand whatsoever. Too many people want changes to characters so that scrubs can compete. GET FUCKING BETTER. God-fucking-damn.

 

[cabibi]

well yes of coarse it should be safer.. i think its already safe enough... I mean the speed on his sprint is idk.. meann..... If you blinked right as he elbowdashed.. i think your f*cked lol...

i do think it should be punishable for sure.. tho

but if it takes speeding up the FFdash speed in order to balance him right so they can weaken the elbow dash a little..
then i think its an even trade.. I mean the rep players say .. we wouldnt be mobile it all.. so why not do it.. weaken the edash and speed up the ff dash.. but for one thing.. if that actually happened.. and they took from this post and thought it was a good idea.. they better give rep a faster bbdash for sure cause OMG.. thats the slower than methusalem.

adding a few recovery frames on block is one thing... changing startup frames... speed of the dash.... plus recovery frames even when not blocked makes the move completely unrecognizable, and does nothing to mitigate reptiles other weaknesses.

I'm in agreement with with people that say learn to respect it and even bait it. There are alot of similar moves in the game with similar start up times that are respected... the only difference is the recovery on block. It's all good to bait something, but it's not useful to bait when you can't punish it on block... it's like giving someone a bucket of bait, and then tell them to go fishing without a fishing pole.

You can't completely mutilate the move in order to mold it into something that makes it easier for you to fight against... a certain amount of effort is expected of the player in order to deal with it.... It's when you put for that effort... it's when you try to punish a move with fast strings, as it was intended to be punished with... and it not working reliably.... that's when you have the problem.

 

[cabibi]

So you're saying nerf the startup of elbow to 8-10f...which allows characters to practically bully him in pressure, as well as potentially nerf his punishment and damage, and add recovery frames to the elbow on whiff...JUST so you can give him a faster normal dash in compensation? Do you not understand the problems already highlighted?

I'm done. I'm fucking done. I hate it when people suggest changes to characters they don't understand whatsoever. Too many people want changes to characters so that scrubs can compete. GET FUCKING BETTER. God-fucking-damn.

Don't get frustrated man lol... it's suggestions like that that distract from the real issues competitive players have with it, and it leads to a flame war which accomplishes absolutely nothing.

 

[THTB]

I'm just annoyed people don't wanna put forth work. I didn't make it to top 4 with Reptile at PowerUp without putting forth a lot of effort. Teefee put in work to expand on the character even further to evolve him to what he is now. Chris G, Arturo, and REO don't place high with Reptile without putting in work.

It's hard as fuck to play this character. Believe me when I say this. To win consistently with the character, you have to put a lot of time into him...no joke. Yes, he's top tier. No, he's not fucking braindead. It seriously just pisses me off that people can't put in the same effort everyone I listed (and more) did with learning Reptile. It's an absolute joke.

 

[cabibi]

I'm just annoyed people don't wanna put forth work. I didn't make it to top 4 with Reptile at PowerUp without putting forth a lot of effort. Teefee put in work to expand on the character even further to evolve him to what he is now. Chris G, Arturo, and REO don't place high with Reptile without putting in work.

It's hard as fuck to play this character. Believe me when I say this. To win consistently with the character, you have to put a lot of time into him...no joke. Yes, he's top tier. No, he's not fucking braindead. It seriously just pisses me off that people can't put in the same effort everyone I listed (and more) did with learning Reptile. It's an absolute joke.

No I know what you mean. I completely had to readjust the way I played with smoke after the OTG was removed... I in no way think that should be done to players that already put in alot of work into how their character moves and plays... took me forever to get the timing down on the otg smoke bomb in combos.... people bitched... NRS nerfed the damaged.... People still bitched... NRS took it out. Sucks when it happens, I know this first hand.

Again, I haven't faced any competitive reptiles offline... I'm talking strictly online. I can punish the dash fine in practice mode, it's when people start teching throws and stuff afterwards that start to give me fits. but that only happens to me online. I have no idea if my 21 smoke bomb string would work competively offline, as it does in practice mode...

A.. Because it doesn't work online
B... Practice mode is buggy as shit so I have no idea if I'm getting used to something that only works in practice mode.

Being that it works in practice mode, and doesn't work online... I've always chalked it up as being a practice mode bug, sort of like how you can keep the opponent always on block, and reset them with certain moves when a human player can actually block them.

 

[THTB]

I'd be willing to get online and we can help you get down the punishment. As much as online is laggy, it gives you that practice dummy that's not buggy.

 

[cabibi]

I'd be willing to get online and we can help you get down the punishment. As much as online is laggy, it gives you that practice dummy that's not buggy.

That would be awesome...

 

[THTB]

Also, I can get another elbow thread up for discussion to keep track of stuff like reliable elbow punishes.

 

[cabibi]

Also, I can get another elbow thread up for discussion to keep track of stuff like reliable elbow punishes.

That would be EXTREMELY helpful

 

[Scoot Magee]

But unless someone uses d1, Reptile's dash will hit anyone out of their counter attempt even if he is at -2 or -3 because the dash is like 5-6 frames and most characters comboable normals are in the 8-10 or more range. The threat of the dash makes you block more than you should have to.

Dash is stupid. What is stupid about it is that it comes out so ridiculously fast. Should have more startup IMO and meaty moves should beat it clean. Either that or the move shouldn't be active until the 3rd or 4th frame of the move. It seems that it is active as soon as he starts the animation which is retarded. Didn't they learn their lesson from MK3 Kabal?

It's def not active at the start of it. I've been stuffed out of dash attempts when trying to get good pressure characters off of me. Same with ex dash, I try to use it to stop pressure because against some characters D+1/3 are not fast enough and I actually lose a bar of meter and start eating a combo. That 5 frame special is the only tool he has for situations like that. If they took that away you could just chip reptile to death with certain characters.