Defeating Reptile

[BATTLEBEAR]

After all this flame war and discussion it has come to my attention that either people have no idea how to deal with, or just think they cannot deal with reptile. Well let me tell you first hand he is beatable..and there is a common strategy for defeating him.

Stand about sweep ranged from any reptile. To get in dash block in,watching out for random slides when you think your opponent may throw it out. DO NOT JUMP, because reptile can AA you basically anywhere on screen if he has meter.

Fullscreen: EX FFB.
A bit closer: FFB or small charged EX FFB.
Midscreen SFB, extra charged EX FFB.
1/4 Screen: SFB, ex SFB

Ok once you are in sweep range, use MK footsies to try and bait out the "broken dash". Use fast normals and low pokes etc to try and make the reptile fall for getting a free elbow dash setup. Once you do this, block pre-emptively to catch elbow dash. Depending on your characters, use your best punishing move. It DOES not matter how much you deal. Think about it. If you only deal about 8%, the reptile will still have the mentality to not respect your footsies. The player will still try and elbow dash your moves because the player may feel like their risk reward is not too bad when in fact is is slowly but surely killing them. Repeat baiting tactics until the reptile grows a brain and realizes what you are doing. When reptile is close, he is usually going to use 321 string or 1 setups. C4 is also one of his decent pokes into overhead so watch for this. He shines from midscreen, but against very good close characters like scorpion , baraka, KL, and others, he cant do much. 321 isn't that fast of a string, and many fast moves beat it like barakas f44 or scorpions 33. Now his 1 or his 11 baits are just a mindgame like any other character. If he uses it well against you, the player is looking for a 50/50 setup, either going for a grab or to follow up with another string and read what actions you are doing. Keep this is mind. 1 is reptile's check move. Don't be too predictable or else you will fall to his pain train combo setups. Try and stay close enough to reptile where you can outpoke him, but stay far enough so you have time to react to his 5 frame startup on Elbow dash. Also be mindful of his xray if you are throwing projectiles. Throw them out once in a while to keep him on his toes, but do not spam or get too predicatble..you will eat 33% and reptile builds his meter back very quickly from the distance xray leaves you at(plus this is reptiles"sweet spot" where he wants to be on the screen). With all this info you should be on your way to beating the green ninja.

 

[cabibi]

After all this flame war and discussion it has come to my attention that either people have no idea how to deal with, or just think they cannot deal with reptile. Well let me tell you first hand he is beatable..and there is a common strategy for defeating him.

Stand about sweep ranged from any reptile. To get in dash block in,watching out for random slides when you think your opponent may throw it out. DO NOT JUMP, because reptile can AA you basically anywhere on screen if he has meter.

Fullscreen: EX FFB.
A bit closer: FFB or small charged EX FFB.
Midscreen SFB, extra charged EX FFB.
1/4 Screen: SFB, ex SFB

Ok once you are in sweep range, use MK footsies to try and bait out the "broken dash". Use fast normals and low pokes etc to try and make the reptile fall for getting a free elbow dash setup. Once you do this, block pre-emptively to catch elbow dash. Depending on your characters, use your best punishing move. It DOES not matter how much you deal. Think about it. If you only deal about 8%, the reptile will still have the mentality to not respect your footsies. The player will still try and elbow dash your moves because the player may feel like their risk reward is not too bad when in fact is is slowly but surely killing them. Repeat baiting tactics until the reptile grows a brain and realizes what you are doing. When reptile is close, he is usually going to use 321 string or 1 setups. C4 is also one of his decent pokes into overhead so watch for this. He shines from midscreen, but against very good close characters like scorpion , baraka, KL, and others, he cant do much. 321 isn't that fast of a string, and many fast moves beat it like barakas f44 or scorpions 33. Now his 1 or his 11 baits are just a mindgame like any other character. If he uses it well against you, the player is looking for a 50/50 setup, either going for a grab or to follow up with another string and read what actions you are doing. Keep this is mind. 1 is reptile's check move. Don't be too predictable or else you will fall to his pain train combo setups. Try and stay close enough to reptile where you can outpoke him, but stay far enough so you have time to react to his 5 frame startup on Elbow dash. Also be mindful of his xray if you are throwing projectiles. Throw them out once in a while to keep him on his toes, but do not spam or get too predicatble..you will eat 33% and reptile builds his meter back very quickly from the distance xray leaves you at(plus this is reptiles"sweet spot" where he wants to be on the screen). With all this info you should be on your way to beating the green ninja.

Thanks for the post. I just tried this strategy against book burning though on XBL, and it didn't work. the only punishment I can get on the dash reliably is a poke. He teched all my throws, blocked all my quick normals, it was just a joke trying to deal with the dash. Maybe I just suck, maybe it's just online... but I just can't handle competent reptiles that use the dash.

Rep isn't even book's main as far as I can remember... and I beat his sub. Nothing away from him, he's an awesome player as it is, it's just that I've noticed that players I'm evenly matched with, as soon as they pick reptile... as long as their someone competent, I loose every time.

Maybe I just need to work on the matchup, but I've put more work against reptile than pretty much any character... it's not like I just woke up this morning and decided, "hey I don't want to figure out the dash so I'm just going to say it's broken". The problem for me is dealing with the dash. I tried the throw thing and it just keeps getting teched. like I said, only thing i can really do is a poke, which is just inadequate imo.

I do appreciate the guide though... shows there's at least a dialog going on about it rather than just the normal flaming.

 

[MortySeinfeld]

Thanks for the post. I just tried this strategy against book burning though on XBL, and it didn't work. the only punishment I can get on the dash reliably is a poke. He teched all my throws, blocked all my quick normals, it was just a joke trying to deal with the dash. Maybe I just suck, maybe it's just online... but I just can't handle competent reptiles that use the dash.

Rep isn't even book's main as far as I can remember... and I beat his sub. Nothing away from him, he's an awesome player as it is, it's just that I've noticed that players I'm evenly matched with, as soon as they pick reptile... as long as their someone competent, I loose every time.

Maybe I just need to work on the matchup, but I've put more work against reptile than pretty much any character... it's not like I just woke up this morning and decided, "hey I don't want to figure out the dash so I'm just going to say it's broken". The problem for me is dealing with the dash. I tried the throw thing and it just keeps getting teched. like I said, only thing i can really do is a poke, which is just inadequate imo.

I do appreciate the guide though... shows there's at least a dialog going on about it rather than just the normal flaming.

If someone is teching all of your throws, that guy deserves praise.

 

[cabibi]

If someone is teching all of your throws, that guy deserves praise.

his GT is Book Burning... I think he posts on this site. He's a damn good player. but yea, he did it to me in a KOTH game on XBL.

He teched my 1st, 2nd, and 3rd throw attempts, so I just went for d1 pokes after that.

I'm guessing that after konqrr's thread, he knows that the best way to punish the dash is with a throw, so he's adjusting by mashing tech after the dash. kind of limit's your options when punishing it lol. It's worth it to eat the poke to avoid the throw.

 

[BATTLEBEAR]

well yea this isn't an end all say all guide. Of course you will need to improvise based on the situation and what he is doing. Teching your throws is something he is doing not so much the character. Also yes it is online. This move is a little retarded online as it recovers very quickly and input delay will fuck you up. This technically isn't universal at all either, considering you use smoke and for that i suggest you try and smoke bomb him to death while throwing teleports once in a while to keep him on his toes. This guide is written more for characters like baraka who dont teleport in and need to be in there fighting reptile. With proper smoke play reptile shouldnt be giving you many problems as you shut his zoning down.

 

[salvificblood]

If he's teching your throw, doesn't that open up other more substantial punishes since he's not blocking?

 

[cabibi]

If he's teching your throw, doesn't that open up other more substantial punishes since he's not blocking?

I thought of that in the game, and tried a combo punish after the dash, but he ended up blocking it. I'm not a reptile player though... so maybe if book sees this he can come in here and clear it up... but I'm assuming he's just mashing tech during the recovery of the dash, then moving straight to block once the recover frames are over.

 

[cabibi]

well yea this isn't an end all say all guide. Of course you will need to improvise based on the situation and what he is doing. Teching your throws is something he is doing not so much the character. Also yes it is online. This move is a little retarded online as it recovers very quickly and input delay will fuck you up. This technically isn't universal at all either, considering you use smoke and for that i suggest you try and smoke bomb him to death while throwing teleports once in a while to keep him on his toes. This guide is written more for characters like baraka who dont teleport in and need to be in there fighting reptile. With proper smoke play reptile shouldnt be giving you many problems as you shut his zoning down.

Rep gives more problems than you think... he's one of the few characters that actually can zone smoke. doing a forceball, then dashing and blocking to stay on top of the forceball, pretty much negates shake and tp punch. any advice on how to over come that would be very much appreciated, because from what I've tried, shake gets hit by a normal or a combo, tp punch gets blocked and punished, smoke bomb either gets blocked or wiffs due to the dashing forward, jumping in gets hit by the forceball, and just blocking gets you thrown or crossed up... only thing I've been able to do is teleport through it, but often that puts smoke in danger unless he has ex meeter (thanks to the dash completely raping teleports)... I'd use EX shake, but only if reptile doesn't have meter, otherwise I'll eat a slide combo. Other than teleporting through it, the only other thing I've been able to do is wiff an air tp punch to get around it. It works sometimes, but when your opponent starts to expect it, it doesn't turn out good for me lol.

But yea it's like I said, I don't have trouble with scrub reptiles, it's the ones that can think, and know the character that I don't have an answer for... it seems like every counter I try on a move that is supposed to leave reptile vulnerable, actually leaves me vulnerable... and at the root of each situation is that damn dash lol.

 

[Cburnham81]

In regards to smokes anti-projectile counter (sorry not sure what its called) it always seems to work wonders against my zoning game as reptile. As long as I dont throw an ex Forceball that is. But throwing the slow normal forceball is something I just dont do against a competent smoke player, because even if i dash in behind the fb...smoke can always still use that projectile shake and it stops reptile in his tracks and smoke falls on his head!! Because as quick as reptiles dash is...he still cant get to you from mid screen before the forceball does. The EX forceball is another story.

 

[cabibi]

In regards to smokes anti-projectile counter (sorry not sure what its called) it always seems to work wonders against my zoning game as reptile. As long as I dont throw an ex Forceball that is. But throwing the slow normal forceball is something I just dont do against a competent smoke player, because even if i dash in behind the fb...smoke can always still use that projectile shake and it stops reptile in his tracks and smoke falls on his head!! Because as quick as reptiles dash is...he still cant get to you from mid screen before the forceball does. The EX forceball is another story.

I can't remember if it's the ex ball or the regular one... whichever ball that can be stayed on top of by reptile, negates the shake. If it's the EX one then that's fine, an EX move should have some type of advantage. All I know is that when I get into situations like that, and try to shake it, I eat a dash or a slide combo before the forceball even hits.

I really don't even care about that though, that's part of the game, and alot of times a rep player will mess up and I can shake it. So that Isn't an issue... if a rep player is good enough not to mess up that set up then he deserves the reward, especially if it's an ex ball.

My only gripe is punishing a blocked dash. that dash just wreaks havoc on all of my setups and it's anoying that I can't do anything damaging enough to make most rep players think twice before abusing it.

 

[salvificblood]

I thought of that in the game, and tried a combo punish after the dash, but he ended up blocking it. I'm not a reptile player though... so maybe if book sees this he can come in here and clear it up... but I'm assuming he's just mashing tech during the recovery of the dash, then moving straight to block once the recover frames are over.

I would suggest delaying the grab against somebody who's doing that, then. Then next time he does it he might try pressing buttons instead of blocking because he knows you're delaying the grab and you can get a combo.

 

[THTB]

Remember, none of Reptile's strings leave him at advantage on block, as far as we know...but in the case some do, ALL of his good normals are too slow to take advantage of it. 1 is 11f, 3 is 13f, d1 is 9f, d3 is 8f, d4 is 12f. This not only affects him offensively, but defensively, as you can see. d3 is his best option not dash to stop pressure, and even then, that's VERY slow for a d1/d3. He actually has to elbow in a lot of cases just to either keep the pressure or deal with it.

His biggest downside is overall how slow he actually is. Other than elbow, NOTHING he has is quick.

 

[cabibi]

I would suggest delaying the grab against somebody who's doing that, then. Then next time he does it he might try pressing buttons instead of blocking because he knows you're delaying the grab and you can get a combo.

cool... I'll try that next time, thanks for the suggestion. I'm just frustrated that I have to play mind games just to punish something. A punish should be a punish. I don't want to ruin the game for people that enjoy that aspect of game, but for me it just doesn't make sense.

 

[THTB]

Cab, Smoke can for sure 21 xx smoke bomb a blocked elbow. Even if you don't land it, unless you're REALLY late on the 21, you get free frame advantage.

 

[BATTLEBEAR]

I can't remember if it's the ex ball or the regular one... whichever ball that can be stayed on top of by reptile, negates the shake. If it's the EX one then that's fine, an EX move should have some type of advantage. All I know is that when I get into situations like that, and try to shake it, I eat a dash or a slide combo before the forceball even hits.

My only gripe is punishing a blocked dash. that dash just wreaks havoc on all of my setups and it's anoying that I can't do anything damaging enough to make most rep players think twice before abusing it.

1. Yea, i didn't mean shake ex-ball. i meant shake the ffb or sfb if he randomly throws them out. Ex fb is trickier but costs meter. On reaction you can throw out a teleport..i mean forceball throwout is fairly slow..or you couldnt smokebom to stop him from dashing right after.

2.I was playing online before against a decent reptile and i assure you most problems you are having are from online itself. I couldn't do f44 as baraka to punish dash and that is 1 fast string.

Remember, none of Reptile's strings leave him at advantage on block, as far as we know...but in the case some do, ALL of his good normals are too slow to take advantage of it. 1 is 11f, 3 is 13f, d1 is 9f, d3 is 8f, d4 is 12f. This not only affects him offensively, but defensively, as you can see. d3 is his best option not dash to stop pressure, and even then, that's VERY slow for a d1/d3. He actually has to elbow in a lot of cases just to either keep the pressure or deal with it.

His biggest downside is overall how slow he actually is. Other than elbow, NOTHING he has is quick.

dude thats what ive been saying..

 

[cabibi]

Well, it's like I said... Am I frustrated with the inability to punish the dash online? of course. But, I'm one of the few who is frustrated, that isn't advocating messing with the dash itself. I realize that it's part of reptile's moveset and it would be pretty dumb for anyone to suggest an alteration of that magnitude.

It's true, I haven't played alot of reptiles offline, so I'm sure there's alot of merrit to the arguments from both sides.

I can't really speak to how it is offline, but from what I'm hearing, I think the issue really is just online from what everyone is saying... but still... just because the game is online shouldn't mean that 1 character is all of a sudden now safe in one of his moves. Maybe the answer lies in adjusting the recovery frames a blocked dash just for online play? is that even possible?

I get that NRS is making this game for tournament play, and the online version of the came shouldn't be different from the offline one... but as it stands now... due to the properties of online play... it is.

 

[THTB]

And that, unfortunately, is with every fighting game you play online.

It really does just lie within online play...like I've said in other topics...against good players offline, I will never, ever, EVER get away with a blocked elbow. Ever. I don't mean that figuratively. I mean that literally.

 

[Scoot Magee]

Cab, Smoke can for sure 21 xx smoke bomb a blocked elbow. Even if you don't land it, unless you're REALLY late on the 21, you get free frame advantage.

This is true. I played a really good smoke (CD jr) the other day and everytime I had my elbow dash blocked I was hit by a full combo. XBL play is not a good way to get good at punishing it. If it's all you have you just have to accept the fact that it's a different game.

 

[Konqrr]

Remember, none of Reptile's strings leave him at advantage on block

But unless someone uses d1, Reptile's dash will hit anyone out of their counter attempt even if he is at -2 or -3 because the dash is like 5-6 frames and most characters comboable normals are in the 8-10 or more range. The threat of the dash makes you block more than you should have to.

Dash is stupid. What is stupid about it is that it comes out so ridiculously fast. Should have more startup IMO and meaty moves should beat it clean. Either that or the move shouldn't be active until the 3rd or 4th frame of the move. It seems that it is active as soon as he starts the animation which is retarded. Didn't they learn their lesson from MK3 Kabal?

 

[cabibi]

But unless someone uses d1, Reptile's dash will hit anyone out of their counter attempt even if he is at -2 or -3 because the dash is like 5-6 frames and most characters comboable normals are in the 8-10 or more range. The threat of the dash makes you block more than you should have to.

Dash is stupid. What is stupid about it is that it comes out so ridiculously fast. Should have more startup IMO and meaty moves should beat it clean. Either that or the move shouldn't be active until the 3rd or 4th frame of the move. It seems that it is active as soon as he starts the animation which is retarded. Didn't they learn their lesson from MK3 Kabal?

See... I'm all ready to concede that it's an online problem, and you have an elite tournament player bring up some insanely good points.

I think the issue is reptiles mobility vs the normal rules of punishing that every other character is subjected to. There has to be a way where NRS can fix it so both crowds are happy.

 

[BATTLEBEAR]

But unless someone uses d1, Reptile's dash will hit anyone out of their counter attempt even if he is at -2 or -3 because the dash is like 5-6 frames and most characters comboable normals are in the 8-10 or more range. The threat of the dash makes you block more than you should have to.

Dash is stupid. What is stupid about it is that it comes out so ridiculously fast. Should have more startup IMO and meaty moves should beat it clean. Either that or the move shouldn't be active until the 3rd or 4th frame of the move. It seems that it is active as soon as he starts the animation which is retarded. Didn't they learn their lesson from MK3 Kabal?

But then that would have been a total guess. Canceling out of 3 or 32 into a dash is a complete guess and gamble not in reptiles favor.

 

[Konqrr]

But then that would have been a total guess. Canceling out of 3 or 32 into a dash is a complete guess and gamble not in reptiles favor.

It's a guess, sure, and an unsafe one, but what's to stop Reptile from using it at random? You have to respect it.

But as an opponent of Reptile, you have to bait and punish it. I see the argument over the dash is boiling down to stop running into wakeup srks and bait/punish that shit. So I'll stop complaining.

 

[cabibi]

Yea I don't have a problem baiting it, that's the easy part. The hard part for me is actually punishing it... with such limited options to punish it, it almost makes it not worth it to bait it... but if you refuse to bait it... it will completely ruin your game. Just a giant catch 22 for me, but then again I haven't played any good reptiles offline.

 

[BATTLEBEAR]

Yea I don't have a problem baiting it, that's the easy part. The hard part for me is actually punishing it... with such limited options to punish it, it almost makes it not worth it to bait it... but if you refuse to bait it... it will completely ruin your game. Just a giant catch 22 for me, but then again I haven't played any good reptiles offline.

Haha thats reverse. Baiting it is the hard part punishing it not so much. Only online man. Play offline you will have much more success

 

[cabibi]

Haha thats reverse. Baiting it is the hard part punishing it not so much. Only online man. Play offline you will have much more success

It is reverse lol. That's why I can't stand playing against him... at least online. Its just cheap... I mean really cheap not just the normal scrub usage of the word cheap. Its still fast offline from what I hear, but being able to punish it properly absolutely changes things.