Breakthrough Deathstroke's Space Control - Diagram

[Pakman]

The diagram below shows all Deathstroke's available attack ranges at any one point. It excludes any jump ins and hit-confirm-only strings (i.e. 3,2 is present, but not 3, 2, 3)



Legend:
Red: Gun specials (e.g d,f, 1/Gun shot)
Green: Sword specials (e.g d, b, 2/Sword spin)
Blue: Normals (e.g. standing 3/Moon Slice)
Orange: Command Normals (e.g. b, 2, 2, 2)

The point of all this is to help find out his correct spacing and show exactly what areas he does and doesn't control.

n.b: the diagram does not of course factor in frame data.

EDIT: can a mod please change the title and put one of those break through or tech icons on it. I'm a noob at this and don't know what the heck I'm doing.

EDIT 2:
@ m2dave
Trini_Bwoi
Hitoshura
ProudDisciple
Vagrant

 

[Mikman360]

Interesting. I'm assuming that really far range orange box is b3?
Range looks pretty darn nuts right now. It may be hard to work into combos, but that range, paired with its ability to be armored, looks like it could be really useful.

 

[TheSpore]

Wow he trully can control almost the whole screen except the top corner

 

[Pakman]

Interesting. I'm assuming that really far range orange box is b3?
Range looks pretty darn nuts right now. It may be hard to work into combos, but that range, paired with its ability to be armored, looks like it could be really useful.

It's actually his f, 3. B, 3 is the first one.

Wow he trully can control almost the whole screen except the top corner

Well, technically almost the whole screen. The thing is, a number of the options shown aren't always that viable because of the actual frame data on them.

For example: his angled gun shot - that would be perfect anti air if it came out faster. It's far too slow to be used as a close anti air and it's actual effective range overlaps with Sword Flip (which comes out almost instantly) anyway - so there's almost no reason to use it. Only if your opponent is locked down at full screen, and they jump, is it any real use (although, this being said, you have AR and IAGS that would do basically the same job). It's kind of like, he has angled shot for the sake of it...IMO, given it's shitty start up, he might as well not have it.

Extra notes:

What's interesting to note is his d, 2. Again the angle is perfect (different angle to any other attack he has - so potential to cover different angled jump ins) and the start up is relatively fast; but this time the actual hit box on it is not very good at anti airing (I've had extremely mixed results with this as an AA so far). Instead, it seems like it's supposed to be used more as a launch punisher - that's fine and all, but he doesn't have a solid stationary AA, which prevents him from properly controlling space. Sword flip is great but it ruins his spacing game. Sword spin is good but situational (and more of a poke rather than AA)

He can potentially use meter-less b,3 or f,3 as Anti airs but these are both extremely situational. Metered versions are better of course but it'd be nice to have a stationary, meter-less anti air that doesn't ruin my spacing game a la Sword flip.

EDIT: Pokes
He's got down 1 (7 frame start up - his fastest normal) and down 3 (causes knock down). They're both ok I guess, but range isn't too hot; his standing normals are better in almost every single way (better reach, can combo). Really, d,1 is more to keep your opponent in check and set up a counter d,1 or d,3 - but in all honesty, knowing the reach of his other normals, you're doing it wrong if they're that close.

Standing pokes, you've got forward 2,3 or 3 by itself as they have the best range and are plus on block. Which is great, but DS could really do with a quick or safe low to develop some kind of footsie/low pressure game. Right now, all of his lows are negative (and slow!)

F, 3 and B,3 could also potentially be used as pokes but you have to charge to activate...he needs "button" pokes!

And now my brain is tired, so I'll stop ^-^

 

[TheSpore]

It's actually his f, 3. B, 3 is the first one.



Well, technically almost the whole screen. The thing is, a number of the options shown aren't always that viable because of the actual frame data on them.

For example: his angled gun shot - that would be perfect anti air if it came out faster. It's far too slow to be used as a close anti air and it's actual effective range overlaps with Sword Flip (which comes out almost instantly) anyway - so there's almost no reason to use it. Only if your opponent is locked down at full screen, and they jump, is it any real use (although, this being said, you have AR and IAGS that would do basically the same job). It's kind of like, he has angled shot for the sake of it...IMO, given it's shitty start up, he might as well not have it.

Extra notes:

What's interesting to note is his d, 2. Again the angle is perfect (different angle to any other attack he has - so potential to cover different angled jump ins) and the start up is relatively fast; but this time the actual hit box on it is not very good at anti airing (I've had extremely mixed results with this as an AA so far). Instead, it seems like it's supposed to be used more as a launch punisher - that's fine and all, but he doesn't have a solid stationary AA, which prevents him from properly controlling space. Sword flip is great but it ruins his spacing game. Sword spin is good but situational (and more of a poke rather than AA)

He can potentially use meter-less b,3 or f,3 as Anti airs but these are both extremely situational. Metered versions are better of course but it'd be nice to have a stationary, meter-less anti air that doesn't ruin my spacing game a la Sword flip.

In terms of pokes: His d, 1 is good kind of, but IMO the better crouch poke overall is d,2 because of range, knock down and block advantage (he's actually safer using d,2 but it's offset by the greater start up)

Standing pokes, you've got forward 2,3 or 3 by itself as they have the best range and are plus on block. Which is great, but could really do with a safe low to develop some kind of footsie/low pressure game. Right now, all of his lows are negative

F, 3 and B,3 could also potentially be used as pokes but you have to charge to activate...he needs "button" pokes!

And now my brain is tired, so I'll stop ^-^

Thats a good analysis, the Anti-Air AR is punishable from full screen with characters like Hawkgirl, there is a tiny inch of space where it can be landed and the adding a MB to it will help close a gap on him, (sorry I don't main Dstroke, but have been studying him to better learn how to beat him) and the IAG move is a tricky one, because I assume it can be fired close to the ground before a landing . In other words Deathstroke can actually dominate the zoning game, it would be insane to try to counter zone him unless it is a mirror match. What it takes is some exact precision and true understanding of your main when having to face him.

I guess I should prolly main after doing such study on him

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

The diagram below shows all Deathstroke's available attack ranges at any one point. It excludes any jump ins and hit-confirm-only strings (i.e. 3,2 is present, but not 3, 2, 3)



Legend:
Red: Gun specials (e.g d,f, 1/Gun shot)
Green: Sword specials (e.g d, b, 2/Sword spin)
Blue: Normals (e.g. standing 3/Moon Slice)
Orange: Command Normals (e.g. b, 2, 2, 2)

The point of all this is to help find out his correct spacing and show exactly what areas he does and doesn't control.

n.b: the diagram does not of course factor in frame data.

EDIT: can a mod please change the title and put one of those break through or tech icons on it. I'm a noob at this and don't know what the heck I'm doing.

EDIT 2:
@ m2dave
Trini_Bwoi
Hitoshura
ProudDisciple
Vagrant

This is really awesome stuff

good work

 

[Pakman]

Thanks Pig!

I plan on doing one for all characters - did Ares earlier today. Gonna work on Cyborg now.

 

[TheSpore]

Thanks Pig!

I plan on doing one for all characters - did Ares earlier today. Gonna work on Cyborg now.

Its well appreciated BTW

 

[Pakman]

Thanks

I'm happy as long as it actually helped. Every now and then I think: this is crazy shit that no one is going to understand but me! XD So it's pleasing to read appreciative comments

I think I actually prefer doing these kinds of break downs/analysis and reverse engineering FG's than actually playing them hahaha.

NRS should hire me. And Capcom for that matter.

 

[Trini_Bwoi]

This is very cool. It looks like his best up close AA is Sword Flip. It does mess up his spacing but it also knocks them down so you can regain yourself. The AA rifle is just...ugh the angle, the startup, I think we should forget about that move. Sword Flip and air guns cover everything it does and better like you said. And the range on the Sword Spin isn't as good as I thought.

 

[Prinz]

Is the sword flip green area correct? Can you duck at the middle and avoid being hit by it?

 

[Pakman]

Is the sword flip green area correct? Can you duck at the middle and avoid being hit by it?

Yes that green arc at top is Sword flip.

You can duck it but you'll take chip damage. It usually lands in front of a blocked opponent, but sometimes at very specific distances it lands behind. Sword flip does not track either - it covers approx 3 character spaces (it's max distance) and is unsafe on block (combo punishable)

 

[RoboCop]

Wow he trully can control almost the whole screen except the top corner

Actually, with his Air Gun Shot, he can make those horizontal red lines go all the way up the screen. Technically there should just be a big red box in front of him up to the health bars.

 

[Roko1985]

The diagram below shows all Deathstroke's available attack ranges at any one point. It excludes any jump ins and hit-confirm-only strings (i.e. 3,2 is present, but not 3, 2, 3)



Legend:
Red: Gun specials (e.g d,f, 1/Gun shot)
Green: Sword specials (e.g d, b, 2/Sword spin)
Blue: Normals (e.g. standing 3/Moon Slice)
Orange: Command Normals (e.g. b, 2, 2, 2)

The point of all this is to help find out his correct spacing and show exactly what areas he does and doesn't control.

n.b: the diagram does not of course factor in frame data.

EDIT: can a mod please change the title and put one of those break through or tech icons on it. I'm a noob at this and don't know what the heck I'm doing.

EDIT 2:
@ m2dave
Trini_Bwoi
Hitoshura
ProudDisciple
Vagrant

Can you do the same for each character? It is very interesting!

 

[Pakman]

Can you do the same for each character? It is very interesting!

Sure!

I'm currently working on Cyborg (should be up tomorrow) then I might do Harley or Hawk girl.

 

[BigMilk]

Thanks Pig!

I plan on doing one for all characters - did Ares earlier today. Gonna work on Cyborg now.

You are truly awesome. Look forward to these

 

[TH3DISTURBED1]

This is very cool. It looks like his best up close AA is Sword Flip. It does mess up his spacing but it also knocks them down so you can regain yourself. The AA rifle is just...ugh the angle, the startup, I think we should forget about that move. Sword Flip and air guns cover everything it does and better like you said. And the range on the Sword Spin isn't as good as I thought.

I haven't played DS but I have to ask: is his J2 or J3 any good? I know Batman's is pretty good and thats what I've been using as AA lately. I haven't really seen his D2 either. From what I have seen, most people just spam guns. I feel like most of his moves haven't really been explored yet.

P.S. I love your sig

 

[ProudDisciple]

I can't believe today is the first time for me coming across this info!
Pakman Great work! Are you maining DS also or someone else?

 

[Pakman]

I can't believe today is the first time for me coming across this info!
Pakman Great work! Are you maining DS also or someone else?

Yes I main Deathstroke

 

[Mikman360]

Standing pokes, you've got forward 2,3 or 3 by itself as they have the best range and are plus on block. Which is great, but DS could really do with a quick or safe low to develop some kind of footsie/low pressure game. Right now, all of his lows are negative (and slow!)

B1U2 is unpunishable and low.

I haven't played DS but I have to ask: is his J2 or J3 any good? I know Batman's is pretty good and thats what I've been using as AA lately. I haven't really seen his D2 either. From what I have seen, most people just spam guns. I feel like most of his moves haven't really been explored yet.

P.S. I love your sig

DS's J3 is pretty good. It's a large arc in front and below him. Proper height produces a combo with 323, be it on the ground or air to air. You can also do air guns for a quick 16% (I believe it was 16).

J2 is fine. Nothing incredibly special about it from what I've noticed, although the angle is nice. You can follow up with a 132 combo or a B1U2 combo on grounded opponents.