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Tech Deathstroke Possible Meterless Vortex

M2Dave

M2Dave

Zoning Master
If you do b+2,2 xx sword flip, dash forward, and jump with any attack, you will always cross up your opponent. How do you cause Deathstroke to attack from the front? And if you can, is the mix up ambiguous? If not, then this tech is not a vortex. People abuse this word too much now days.
 
NYCj360

NYCj360

i Use a modded cyber now
m2dave said:
If you do b+2,2 xx sword flip, dash forward, and jump with any attack, you will always cross up your opponent. How do you cause Deathstroke to attack from the front? And if you can, is the mix up ambiguous? If not, then this tech is not a vortex. People abuse this word too much now days.
Click to expand...
I agree with the term being used too loosely, but ill just start by letting you know that i come from the game where the word vortex was invented which was marvel 2 thanks to yipes, i understand what it means.

The jumping 1 has a different hitbox from the 2 and 3. It comes out much faster and can be timed less then a second apart in order to control which side you want it to come out on. It is near impossible to tell which side i will hit you on as the character trying to block it, its fully in my control. i've tested it many times with a few people and it really puts them in a bad position to block, its ambiguous similar to akuma or ibuki in sf4.

Get the timing down and try it out, you'll see what i mean.
 
Prinz

Prinz

watch?v=a8PEVV6tt14
From the looks of it ji1 doesn't have enough advantage on block to jail them. Does a 6 frame move interrupt a ji1 follow-up on block?
 
NYCj360

NYCj360

i Use a modded cyber now
Prinz said:
From the looks of it ji1 doesn't have enough advantage on block to jail them. Does a 6 frame move interrupt a ji1 follow-up on block?
Click to expand...
that is a good question, the worst part of the mixup lies within the initial jump in 1. if you can block the jump in 1 you can use a meter and push block ds away, then again using a meter gives me a winning situation as well. its a pretty safe cross up option for DS
 
M2Dave

M2Dave

Zoning Master
J360 said:
I agree with the term being used too loosely, but ill just start by letting you know that i come from the game where the word vortex was invented which was marvel 2 thanks to yipes, i understand what it means.

The jumping 1 has a different hitbox from the 2 and 3. It comes out much faster and can be timed less then a second apart in order to control which side you want it to come out on. It is near impossible to tell which side i will hit you on as the character trying to block it, its fully in my control. i've tested it many times with a few people and it really puts them in a bad position to block, its ambiguous similar to akuma or ibuki in sf4.

Get the timing down and try it out, you'll see what i mean.
Click to expand...
It appears as though hitting 1 early causes a cross up and hitting 1 late does not.

Have you tried forward dashing to avoid this mix up? It seems to work and I am dashing and jumping as fast as possibly I can.

In the corner, the mix ups get better, by the way. f+3 crosses up if you do it early. If you delay it for a split second, it hits from the front. REO told me about this when the game came out.
 
Raynex

Raynex

Intelligence + Speed + Power
First off, mad respect for trying to expand DS's game in spite of how bland everyone thinks he is. I'm sure you're onto something with this tech. I do have a few issues with it's premise and application though.

At 2:20, when you demonstrate the 50/50 off the sword flip, you're perform a cross-up j.1 three times. During all three attempts, I saw no evidence of the other side of this 50/50; the fake cross-up. To all appearances, you failed to manipulate that situation so that you landed in front of him. Without the fake cross-up option, this stands as just a tricky one dimensional cross-up setup. How is this a 50/50 exactly? (unless the j.1 is supposed to hit on one side and make Deathstroke land on the other, but you didn't mention anything like that)

At 3:00, when you started mixing up between Deathstroke's low & high into Sword Flip for this "vortex", it looked rather silly. You were not confirming, but rather just throwing out a single low or a single high into DS's most unsafe move. You know Sword Flip is more than -20 on block right? What kind of half-ass vortex gives you 13% on each successful mix-up yet leaves you open to FULL punishment by literally anything if blocked? The damage isn't even close to worth the risk. At 6:30 you begin to explain it further but instead touch on how you can use his overhead and confirm into Sword Flip. There was definitely a disconnect between what I was seeing and what I was hearing. Can you elaborate on why anyone would use this mix-up?

Finally, no one HAS to respect this. There are a handful of great ways to get out safely, and most of them are universal:

- Backdash
- [MB]] F3 / B3 armor and release OR backdash / forward dash
- Block the cross-up j.1 (there is no trickery, it's always a cross-up), and pushblock

A vortex is, characteristically, oppressive and difficult to escape. The best ones lead to decent damage, have numerous options (way too many for the opponent to remember) and should always allow you to land one free mix-up. Think Akuma in SF4: Sweep, demon flip, cycle between more than 7 possible options. This setup has too many holes to be considered a vortex. At best it's a 50/50...but then it only has one option off the jump - the cross-up.

Am I missing something here?

edit: I just caught the comment above about timing the j.1 differently so it can switch sides. In the video however, it crossed up every single time. That's what I'm not getting.
 
NYCj360

NYCj360

i Use a modded cyber now
Raynex said:
First off, mad respect for trying to expand DS's game in spite of how bland everyone thinks he is. I'm sure you're onto something with this tech. I do have a few issues with it's premise and application though.

At 2:20, when you demonstrate the 50/50 off the sword flip, you're perform a cross-up j.1 three times. During all three attempts, I saw no evidence of the other side of this 50/50; the fake cross-up. To all appearances, you failed to manipulate that situation so that you landed in front of him. Without the fake cross-up option, this stands as just a tricky one dimensional cross-up setup. How is this a 50/50 exactly? (unless the j.1 is supposed to hit on one side and make Deathstroke land on the other, but you didn't mention anything like that)

At 3:00, when you started mixing up between Deathstroke's low & high into Sword Flip for this "vortex", it looked rather silly. You were not confirming, but rather just throwing out a single low or a single high into DS's most unsafe move. You know Sword Flip is more than -20 on block right? What kind of half-ass vortex gives you 13% on each successful mix-up yet leaves you open to FULL punishment by literally anything if blocked? The damage isn't even close to worth the risk. At 6:30 you begin to explain it further but instead touch on how you can use his overhead and confirm into Sword Flip. There was definitely a disconnect between what I was seeing and what I was hearing. Can you elaborate on why anyone would use this mix-up?

Finally, no one HAS to respect this. There are a handful of great ways to get out safely, and most of them are universal:

- Backdash
- [MB]] F3 / B3 armor and release OR backdash / forward dash
- Block the cross-up j.1 (there is no trickery, it's always a cross-up), and pushblock

A vortex is, characteristically, oppressive and difficult to escape. The best ones lead to decent damage, have numerous options (way too many for the opponent to remember) and should always allow you to land one free mix-up. Think Akuma in SF4: Sweep, demon flip, cycle between more than 7 possible options. This setup has too many holes to be considered a vortex. At best it's a 50/50...but then it only has one option off the jump - the cross-up.

Am I missing something here?

edit: I just caught the comment above about timing the j.1 differently so it can switch sides. In the video however, it crossed up every single time. That's what I'm not getting.
Click to expand...
its not always a cross up. AI auto blocking does not happen the same as when someone tries to block it. I wouldn't put this up for the lulz or for cool points. I was just showing that it puts you back into the same situation, its definitely not worth going for more than once, land a larger meterless bnb and call it a day.

Deathstroke does have the option however of this mixup, and my advice to everyone in here is to actually try it out before dismissing the fact that it hits front side as well, i stated a few times in the video that i'm playing on an xbox pad so my execution is shitty. I'll make a revised video of it with whatever findings i have on it whether or not it picks it apart or makes it better, the game is in its early stages so there is no shot at anything being full proof.
 
NYCj360

NYCj360

i Use a modded cyber now
m2dave said:
It appears as though hitting 1 early causes a cross up and hitting 1 late does not.

Have you tried forward dashing to avoid this mix up? It seems to work and I am dashing and jumping as fast as possibly I can.

In the corner, the mix ups get better, by the way. f+3 crosses up if you do it early. If you delay it for a split second, it hits from the front. REO told me about this when the game came out.
Click to expand...
i noticed f3 has a funny arch to it, i haven't had much time to try it out. ill try the dashes out, if it throws off the j1 then ill definitely revise this.
 
Mikman360

Mikman360

Not the Milkman.
m2dave said:
If you do b+2,2 xx sword flip, dash forward, and jump with any attack, you will always cross up your opponent. How do you cause Deathstroke to attack from the front? And if you can, is the mix up ambiguous? If not, then this tech is not a vortex. People abuse this word too much now days.
Click to expand...
You're timing the Ji1 wrong. Throw it out earlier, it wont cross up.

And J360, I just wish to express how sad I am that you posted this. Not because I don't like it, but I was LITERALLY in the process of recording my OWN video showcasing something similar to this. I felt all cool for fiding the epicness of Ji1 :(

Well I'm still going to put up my video since it has some different things in it. I've found a safer way to set this up instead of using Sword Flip. It's a bit more reliable too since Sword Flip can knock the opponent really far away. My method has more damage too. Each repeatition does 27% per go.

...NO ONE ELSE MAKE A VIDEO ON THIS UNTIL IM DONE!! >.<
 
NYCj360

NYCj360

i Use a modded cyber now
Mikman360 said:
You're timing the Ji1 wrong. Throw it out earlier, it wont cross up.

And J360, I just wish to express how sad I am that you posted this. Not because I don't like it, but I was LITERALLY in the process of recording my OWN video showcasing something similar to this. I felt all cool for fiding the epicness of Ji1 :(

Well I'm still going to put up my video since it has some different things in it. I've found a safer way to set this up instead of using Sword Flip. It's a bit more reliable too since Sword Flip can knock the opponent really far away. My method has more damage too. Each repeatition does 27% per go.

...NO ONE ELSE MAKE A VIDEO ON THIS UNTIL IM DONE!! >.<
Click to expand...
sweet man i cant wait to see it!
 
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