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Question - Kotal Kahn Dealing with Zoners (Jacqui)

C

Crayraven

Noob
redeyes said:
watched for 2 seconds can see all your flaws.

1) stop jumping at full screen
2) stop blocking and just duck them
3) duck dash duck dash duck dash duck dash


i think this "MU" issues is really a personal issues for the fact u cant deal with zoning
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Going to try your duck dash advice, thanks man.

I was never under the impression that Kotal Kahn had no options vs zoning. I figured I did not know the options and that I was over looking something.

I had no idea that just by ducking you can avoid all high attacks. I was looking at the projectiles in relation to a character ducking. So it seemed that high projectiles couldn't be ducked. Your advice solved all of the problems I was having with Kotal Kahn. Really, I appreciate it!
 
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tatterbug4

tatterbug4

Bug of tater's
Remember. If this looks impossible. People fought kabal without teleport lol. And some match ups were not that bad
 
Khaoz77

Khaoz77

Don't run, you're gonna trip...
Yeah...

In order to get good, you are GOING to go through the struggle. This is what seperates the men from the boys. Fight through those bad matchups and adapt.

This goes out to all you beginners, put in the work.
 
Youphemism

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
TylorJockin said:
Thanks for the tips guys. I'm working on getting in hard. I didn't realize ppl on TYM get so upset when you throw in a non-serious MU ratio lol but for those of you who cared to throw tips I greatly appreciate it.
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Non-serious MU ratio? You've even titled your videos against Kitana and Jacqui as 0-10 and 2-8, there's nothing to suggest you weren't being serious and that's why people are/were blowing you up.

Off topic, have you faced a Cybernetic Kano yet?
 
ValeDJ

ValeDJ

Noob
Dash, duck, dash, duck, bait the jump...f2....hasn't been a problem to be honest. KK has enough whiff combo's to reach to be fair...
 
REYTHEGREAT

REYTHEGREAT

..........................
I'm pretty sure most of the guys commenting here havent faced a good jacqui. Sure, dash block might work a round or two, but trying going a full set with a good jacqui using full auto while you are using kotal. Good luck winning that match. The reality is, kotal gets zoned out by her projectiles. It's a losing matchup.
 
Skedar70

Skedar70

Noob
TylorJockin said:
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I have been fighting a Kotal (me using Kitana) and he has been destroying me because upclose Kotal has more reach and safe strings. When I try to zone him he ducks my fans and activates the Sun Ray. Then he places himself under the Sun Ray and ducks without blocking in order to regain any life I took away from him while I keep shooting fans at him. Because of this he forces me to get close and try to move him away from the Sun Ray(I tried leaving him there and build some meter but it doesn't seem to be effective since he regains a lot of life). By doing this he forces me to take risks with Kitana by getting close to him and I can't continue the zoning. This is an option you guys should consider. Of course you need to know how to activate the sun ray safely and how to take advantage if the zoner gets close.
 
S

Shonuff

Noob
Its a shame Jacqui is wasted on such a scrubby tactic that is mostly successful because its online. I started maining Jacqui before I jumped to Kotal so even before the complaints I was already aware of how to deal with it. I want to say that as a community we need to stop acting like we are better than everyone else and help those that struggle. At least he is asking. If you don't feel like explaining, point to him the countless videos about dealing with projectile characters like this one.

 
Youphemism

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
Shonuff said:
Its a shame Jacqui is wasted on such a scrubby tactic that is mostly successful because its online. I started maining Jacqui before I jumped to Kotal so even before the complaints I was already aware of how to deal with it. I want to say that as a community we need to stop acting like we are better than everyone else and help those that struggle. At least he is asking. If you don't feel like explaining, point to him the countless videos about dealing with projectile characters like this one.

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She's not wasted on anything, it's the people who are wasting their potential on online tactics. Thing is unless you're one of the people on this site who know how to deal with it and will gladly help people if they ask normally and don't come in here crying about spam and her gun being overpowered then you're going to continue to not know how to deal with it properly. Casual players are going to continue to not learn to deal with it themselves but that's down to a mixture of reluctance to go into practice, lack of completeness and depth in the tutorials, people not knowing about high level play and TYM and people finding it easier to complain than adapt. We'll help if they're willing to approach the problem in a mature manner, that's what this site is all about :)
 
Kotal_Wannabe

Kotal_Wannabe

AKA AndyPandy
Hey guys, i'm new to TYM, but really enjoying Kotal right now. I don't have much of a problem with jacqui or most of the other zoners since their attacks hit high so I can neutral duck, but I have big problems vs shinnok players. His hell spark attack hits mid and if you block, it has big push back, you can't jump over for obvious reasons. So my only option is to block and slow walk to inch my way to him. But he can just mix in a few unblockable ground attacks to prevent your advance.

I haven't unlocked shinnok yet so can't go to practice mode to figure out how to counter this, so if someone knows how to counter this form of zoning, and can let me know, i'd be grateful.
 
Pan1cMode

Pan1cMode

AUS FGC represent!
Kotal_Wannabe said:
Hey guys, i'm new to TYM, but really enjoying Kotal right now. I don't have much of a problem with jacqui or most of the other zoners since their attacks hit high so I can neutral duck, but I have big problems vs shinnok players. His hell spark attack hits mid and if you block, it has big push back, you can't jump over for obvious reasons. So my only option is to block and slow walk to inch my way to him. But he can just mix in a few unblockable ground attacks to prevent your advance.

I haven't unlocked shinnok yet so can't go to practice mode to figure out how to counter this, so if someone knows how to counter this form of zoning, and can let me know, i'd be grateful.
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If you're using war God, get in range, bait the hell Sparks and armour through with overhead sword into full combo. He's also really negative on hell sparks unless he MBs them so use that to your advantage.

Boneshaper Shinnock does not look fun for Kotal if I'm honest.
 
Kotal_Wannabe

Kotal_Wannabe

AKA AndyPandy
Thanks @Pan1cMode yeh when I can get close enough I do the armoured overhead, keep up the pressure and don't let him escape, problem is getting close enough to do anything. Boneshaper would be a nightmare lol, luckily no one has used him vs my kotal just yet.
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Pan1cMode said:
If you're using war God, get in range, bait the hell Sparks and armour through with overhead sword into full combo. He's also really negative on hell sparks unless he MBs them so use that to your advantage.

Boneshaper Shinnock does not look fun for Kotal if I'm honest.
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Shinnok in general doesn't look fun for Kotal, he's one of those characters who can autopilot a long range move into + as long as he has a bar.

The problem is that he has a safe 50-50 right after, only thing that can be considered "advantageous" is that his low must be cancelled into EX sparks if it's blocked and he doesn't want to get punished.
 
Pan1cMode

Pan1cMode

AUS FGC represent!
Qwark28 said:
Shinnok in general doesn't look fun for Kotal, he's one of those characters who can autopilot a long range move into + as long as he has a bar.

The problem is that he has a safe 50-50 right after, only thing that can be considered "advantageous" is that his low must be cancelled into EX sparks if it's blocked and he doesn't want to get punished.
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In boneshaper it actually is safe thanks to the new string he gets.

I think the overhead is -11 though iirc. Can Kotal not punish that? I know Jacqui, Kenshi and Tanya can.
 
Pnut

Pnut

Mouth of the Illuminati
Pan1cMode said:
In boneshaper it actually is safe thanks to the new string he gets.

I think the overhead is -11 though iirc. Can Kotal not punish that? I know Jacqui, Kenshi and Tanya can.
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Just frame standing 1 or b1. Our fastest punisher is 10 frames :(
 
Pan1cMode

Pan1cMode

AUS FGC represent!
Pnut said:
Just frame standing 1 or b1. Our fastest punisher is 10 frames :(
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Well that sucks :(. At least you get a d1/d2 check? It's something I guess?

Qwark28 said:
D2 actually but that's still meh. And I don't even think you can just-frame punish in this game, read something of the sort from Dizzy.
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If something is -11 you have to punish with a 10 frame normal or an 11 frame special.
 
Kotal_Wannabe

Kotal_Wannabe

AKA AndyPandy
So I normally like the kitana kotal matchup becasue I find kitana easier to read than most of the cast. But every once in a while I come across a kitana who does nothing other than spam ground and air fans, all the while building up meter for a yolo X-ray when you get close. My strat right now is to neutral duck and slow walk in, but it gets frustrating to deal after a while when they jump backwards so much (kinda like deathstoke'rs) and mix in advancing attacks Surely there's gotta be a better way to deal with this? I won the first match and lost the second to the same strat, out of sheer frustration...

 
MrProfDrPepper

MrProfDrPepper

NRS, Guilty Gear, and KI, the holy trinity
i will say this once, this applies to all ways of getting in on zoners when you do not have a teleport, PATIENCE IS YOUR FRIEND, dont go rushing into my telefuries like an idiot, neutral duck them advance neutral duck them look for teleslice advance, watch for telepush when you get in mid range. this philosiphy applies to all zoners, be, careeful and be patient
 
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