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Dealing With Stream Setups, Tourney Stations, and Lag

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
I've been meaning to make a post about this for awhile, but it was brought to my attention again at two recent major tournaments. Now to be fair, as a TO, you have a million things to worry about come tourney day. However, since the core focus of any event is the actual match play, that means that it should probably be close to a top priority to straighten these things out.

So issues are the following:

1) Monitors not set to the correct settings. This is easily correctable, and simply requires an extra 10 seconds once each monitor is plugged in, to make sure that it's set to optimal settings for latency. There should be a list of standard settings for both Asus and BenQ to make this easier on everyone, but no one should have to play on an incorrect setup ever again if this simple step is taken. (720p? 'Game' mode?)

2) Latency of various components of stream equipment, namely splitters (and potentially long cables as well). This is a trickier issue, as streamers are not always affiliated with the TOs or tourney staff, and thus they can really bring and install any equipment they want. The problem is that this can negatively affect the experience for everyone, without any sort of oversight.

The only thing that seems fair to recommend is that A) we compile a list of a few known HDMI splitters that do not lag (I know GGA has been working on contributing to this), as well as some to avoid. If we all came together collaboratively to figure this out, it shouldn't take long at all. But there's no reason for it to be a guessing game.

Also, B) if I were a TO, I would purchase a couple of extra 'safe' splitters that could be used in case there's an issue with something a streamer brings in. Obviously TOs can not be expected to provide equipment for every single streamer at an event, but having a couple of backup splitters per venue is a relatively minor expense that can solve otherwise unfixable issues.

Soonk also brought to my attention that some very long HDMI cables (around 30-50 feet) might lag as well.

In any case, while I have my own set of stream equipment and it checks out, I think it's time that we opened this up and had a community discussion between players, TOs, and streamers about standardizing things to eliminate these wholly preventable issues.

NeoRussell GGA 16 Bit Tom Brady SweetJohnnyCage 9.95 TenZeRo7 GamerBlake90 Sabin AU_IM_DIGIMON PLAYING TO W1N
 

GGA HAN

Galloping Ghost Arcade

9.95

Noob
First, HDMI splitter should be powered, otherwise you risk lag. I don't even know if they make un-powered HDMI splitters.

This is the one I use: http://www.amazon.com/Sewell-Powered-Splitter-Certified-Up-1080p/dp/B003B4O7NS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1368128179&sr=8-1&keywords=sewell+hdmi+splitter

The only problems I've ever encountered were monitor refresh lag issues, never the splitter.

With regards to monitor lag... ALL Asus monitors will eventually "lag out"...even on 720p in game mode. The fix is simple... unplug the power from the back of the monitor, count to 10, plug it back in. This refreshes the motherboard on the monitor and the lag is gone.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
With regards to monitor lag... ALL Asus monitors will eventually "lag out"...even on 720p in game mode. The fix is simple... unplug the power from the back of the monitor, count to 10, plug it back in. This refreshes the motherboard on the monitor and the lag is gone.
Phil, any rough idea of how long it takes for this to happen?
 
First, HDMI splitter should be powered, otherwise you risk lag. I don't even know if they make un-powered HDMI splitters.

This is the one I use: http://www.amazon.com/Sewell-Powered-Splitter-Certified-Up-1080p/dp/B003B4O7NS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1368128179&sr=8-1&keywords=sewell hdmi splitter

The only problems I've ever encountered were monitor refresh lag issues, never the splitter.

With regards to monitor lag... ALL Asus monitors will eventually "lag out"...even on 720p in game mode. The fix is simple... unplug the power from the back of the monitor, count to 10, plug it back in. This refreshes the motherboard on the monitor and the lag is gone.
Laugh (of the infiltration and laugh duo) owns/runs xtokki. He gave me one that there has been extensive testing on. i will post the model number tonight. 9.95... just bc a splitter is powered does not guarantee that it will be latency free.
 

rteruyas

Noob
I've been around my local scene for a few years now, and this is the setup I had been using for the last two years:

HDMI splitter: http://www.amazon.com/ViewHD-Powered-Splitter-Certified-Outputs/dp/B00263D7A4/ref=sr_1_25?ie=UTF8&qid=1368130221&sr=8-25&keywords=monoprice+hdmi+splitter
Hauppauge HD PVR
HD Fury2 (so that one output of splitter can go to HD PVR)
ASUS VH236 (game mode on)
Console output to 720p

I remember I read about the splitter in SRK forums a while ago, and I haven't had any issues with it so far. Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with the way lag is being tested other than "human eye" otherwise I'd be more than happy to provide additional info.
 

FunkyP

Noob
Any streamer worth his weight in salt knows the appropriate measures to prevent any kind of lag on the stream setup. We run an HDMI signal from the console to a powered lag free distribution amplifier and to the monitor. There should be little to nothing else in the way, and this will guarantee a lag free setup. The cables running to and from the amp should usually be no more than 15ft, I personally make sure the amp is within 6-10 ft of the console and monitor. Can a powered HDMI splitter lag? Possible, but very highly unlikely. There are cheap passive splitters out there that are disguised as powered ones, but those are easy to identify and avoid.

Everything outside of that on our side(our recording equipment and software) will not affect the setup being played on. Asus monitors only have one display mode and the other options have no effect on latency, we've done several tests to make sure its so. The standard default out of the box settings will not lag beyond the already known half frame of delay the monitors are known for. I actually recommend against using game mode, all it does is flatten the color levels and actually makes it really hard for certain people to see things they otherwise could. There could be other factors such as how old the monitor may be and how long its been running, but that stuff is out of the hands of streamers.

Also if people are claiming they can visually tell the difference between 1-2 frames of lag, they are bullshitting and making excuses. The console lagging is going to fuck you up, not because you couldn't visually confirm a move within the 1 frame window.
 

rteruyas

Noob
Everything outside of that on our side(our recording equipment and software) will not affect the setup being played on. Asus monitors only have one display mode and the other options have no effect on latency, we've done several tests to make sure its so. The standard default out of the box settings will not lag beyond the already known half frame of delay the monitors are known for. I actually recommend against using game mode, all it does is flatten the color levels and actually makes it really hard for certain people to see things they otherwise could. There could be other factors such as how old the monitor may be and how long its been running, but that stuff is out of the hands of streamers.
dat was my next question, thanks for the info. I never found a real source whether "game mode" was better in the evo monitors
 

FunkyP

Noob
The reason I'll say don't use game mode is that humans respond to changes in contrast the quickest, so dark colors to light colors will give you a quick response. With game mode it flattens out all the contrast so darker colors are now lighter and look more similar to neutral colors. People are blindly setting their monitors to game mode without realizing this small nuance in the human brain and this may actually have an effect on their play.
 
BenQ is ass.
False. The dudes who run Shadoloo Showdown in Australia run exclusively on BenQ monitors and NO ONE has ever complained of lag down there, even the Japanese players. Sp00ky has even recommended using them since the ASUS VH236H is no longer in production.
 

Bibulus

Noob
BenQ is ass if you don't know how to adjust the settings to the game at hand. You need to make sure you use the native resolution of the game at hand because 1080p game mode is not the end all be all of settings
 

Rip Torn

ALL I HAVE IS THE GREEN.
False. The dudes who run Shadoloo Showdown in Australia run exclusively on BenQ monitors and NO ONE has ever complained of lag down there, even the Japanese players. Sp00ky has even recommended using them since the ASUS VH236H is no longer in production.
Are you sure it wasn't an ASUS? :joker:
 

Rip Torn

ALL I HAVE IS THE GREEN.
I'm not trolling. ASUS may have stopped production of the 236 but you can still get the 238 which is the same thing but LED instead of LCD:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236117

BenQ monitors are not good for fighting games. They never have been either. there is no amount of tweaking you can do to the settings to make them playable either. Why even bring up BenQ? Of the myriad of other companies that make monitors, why them?
 

Tim Static

Adminerator
I'm not trolling. ASUS may have stopped production of the 236 but you can still get the 238 which is the same thing but LED instead of LCD:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236117

BenQ monitors are not good for fighting games. They never have been either. there is no amount of tweaking you can do to the settings to make them playable either. Why even bring up BenQ? Of the myriad of other companies that make monitors, why them?
I bring up BenQ because, outside of Asus, they've gotten the most use in gaming tournaments.
Yup, BenQ was used (still is as far as I know) for MLG, fyi.