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Strategy Criteria on Chain Grabs

Owerbart

I miss you

I've seen some posts on the Grundy forums and match footage and pretty much all the time I see them using only Health Chain. I think as a community we need to realize when is the best moment for each grab.

Defense chain is AWESOME against hardcore zoners, With Defense Grab on, Deathstroke bullets for example go:

Pistols->you duck so no chip
Low Pistols-> 2.76 chip damage ---->0,28 chip with defense grab x2
EX Low Pistols-> 5,52 chip damage ---->0,56 chip with defense grab x2
Machinegun-> 3 shots of 0,23=0,69 damage ---->3 shots of 0,02 with defense grab x2
EX Machinegun-> 3 shots of 0,23 + 1,38 from rocket = 2,07 ----> 3 shots of 0,02 + 0,14 from rocket = 0,20 damage with defense grab x2
(1)3 = 0,16 damage ----> 0,02 with defense grab x2


In superman's case:

Fireblast =you duck so no chip
Air Laser = 1,88 ---> 0,19 with defense grab x2
Trait Air Laser = 2,49 ---> 0,25 with defense grab x2
EX Air Laser = 1,88 + 2,00 = 3,88 ----> 0,19 + 0,20 = 0,39 with defense grab x2
EX Trait Air Laser = 2,49 + 2,66 = 5,15 -----> 0,27+0,25 = 0,52 with defense grab x2
Laser = 1,88 ----> 0,19 with defense grab x2
Trait Laser = 2,49 ----> 0,25 with defense grab x2
EX Laser =1,88 + 3,00 = 4,88 ----> 0,19 + 0,30 = 0,49 with defense grab x2
EX Trait Laser = 2,49 + 3,99 = 6,48 ----> 0,25 + 0,40 = 0,65 with defense grab x2
F23 Breath = 0,16 +0,10+ 2,25 = 2,51 ----> 0 + 0,02 + 0,23 = 0,25 with defense grab x2



In the case of superman because his chip game is so powerful, once you grab him you are going to have a bonus for the next approach, but you'll have to keep approaching. Against Deathstroke, because his chip zoning damage becomes so weakened, if you get a 30, 40 percent lead you can just chillax until he realizes he must go after you. His trait may help him but you can go for Swamp hands after you see him and his practical unblockable time will be shortened, and after it ends, you are one happy grappler ready to munch a rabbit.

I'm pretty sure that with Sinestro, Cyborg, Joker, Raven, and maybe Green Lantern (once you hit a Defense grab he looks cooked) and Green Arrow if you can get a moderate lifelead you can chillax with defense grab in the corner. Once they realize they must go hunting you your gameplan becomes a lot easier, because the grappled must run to the grappler.

Against Batman, Defense Chain can be huge because all light attacks get a big ZERO of chip damage, so Batman's pressure game (including bats) become way more tolerable. Personally, I have hard time against Aquaman's pressure so time to time I use it against him. If you can handle him keep reading.


Power chain is useful against:

1. Characters that although won't zone you, are a bitch to get in, so every little damage you do will count. Hawkgirl, Wonder Woman, Harley Quinn, Nightwing, Catwoman, Black Adam, maybe the Joker, Green Arrow. This characters IMO have a good evasive game but their zoning chip damage is not enough to be considered a priority.

2. Characters that you WILL have a lot of opportunities to get in. Here come Shazam, Bane, Doomsday, Lobo, Flash, maybe Killer Frost. This characters are princiapally close range fighters, so Power Chain will help you to outdamage them.


Health chain is the one that deals the most damage, and most of the time is seen as an insurance way to not being KOed by a combo. It also helps a lot in the MUs that you think the key is to use your armor, be MB Trait Grabs, MB Slices (overlooked move, IMO) and of course Walking Corpse. Health chaing will make the projectile-walking corpse trade a lot more in your favor. I would use it against Lex (because of his setups), Ares (until his resets get nerfed, this makes his resets a lot less scary) Batman, Flash, Killer Frost, Nightwing, if you want to counter their close range game with armor, and again, anyone you think the key to victory is around absorbing damage with your armor.

Also, of course, Health Chain should be used to get the extra damage that closes the match ;)


These are my 2 cents on Grundy's criteria on which chain to do. Of course any opinion is more than welcome and I'm glad if I helped anyone.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
Why aren't people acknowledging the positional advantage on the grabs, either? Like, 1x power chain leaves the opponent in the opposite direction, 1x defense chain has the best wakeup position, 1x health has worse frame advantage in the same position as 1x defense, but is perfect for some cushion on wakeup attacks.

I think the 1x chains are going to be exceedingly vital in Grundy's game than people are acknowledging. It didn't make sense to me why they existed until I noticed the positioning advantages they gave.
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
Why aren't people acknowledging the positional advantage on the grabs, either? Like, 1x power chain leaves the opponent in the opposite direction, 1x defense chain has the best wakeup position, 1x health has worse frame advantage in the same position as 1x defense, but is perfect for some cushion on wakeup attacks.

I think the 1x chains are going to be exceedingly vital in Grundy's game than people are acknowledging. It didn't make sense to me why they existed until I noticed the positioning advantages they gave.
maybe
but having the game tell me the actual advantage i'm at after the throw would actually be a lot better at this point

I don't like it saying -5554434345345....
 

Mestizo3

Noob
Why aren't people acknowledging the positional advantage on the grabs, either? Like, 1x power chain leaves the opponent in the opposite direction, 1x defense chain has the best wakeup position, 1x health has worse frame advantage in the same position as 1x defense, but is perfect for some cushion on wakeup attacks.

I think the 1x chains are going to be exceedingly vital in Grundy's game than people are acknowledging. It didn't make sense to me why they existed until I noticed the positioning advantages they gave.
Yep I always use 1x defense chain if I have a meter and read that they will try to jump back or backdash on wake up. I get a free 1,1,2, MB swamp hands (or MB cleaver if I think they will crouch block) and then the ole jump 2, back+1, trait grab inescapable reset.

I also will always do 1x power chain if my back is to the corner, because getting the opponent into the corner is so important for grundy.
 

ReZo

MKX
I agree with Mestizo3, Getting the opponent into the corner is key for Grundy's mixup game, although, I prefer health chain x1 for the corner, because if I miss-time or miss-read my opponents move, Im definitely in a combo lol