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General/Other - Covert Ops Covert Ops Improvements Wishlist

Dedlock

Apprentice
Been exclusively playing Covert Ops since April! NRS have been reluctant to enhance this variation and for the most part have left it intact, which is great for consistency but admittedly has become stale and made her predictable.

Therefore I'd like to discuss areas in which this variation can be improved upon and also in general.

Feel free to add your own recommendations, please be civil if NRS will continue to support MKX for atleast the coming year, then I think it's important they know what are our thoughts on Sonya and what areas they can look at.

First up is

Enhancements to Covert Ops,

I've come to accept MS1 and Ms4 's drawbacks the former having minimal range the latter having slow start up. Let's just say the years have slowed down our old girl.

However, MS3 is something I feel can be changed to the benefit of Sonya's Covert Ops game.

MS3 is a "reverse cartwheel" that only activates upon hit. I believe it should activate regardless, if the full reverse cartwheel flip comes out on command we can utilise this move to catch people out of the air. It also will be fairly punishable since on whiff recovery will leave her open so that balances things out.

The variation will immediately benefit from having this in place because her AA game is lacking in Covert Ops.

Air throw :

This move should be given more priority in the air. As it stands by it self it loses out to most one on one air showdowns. Either give it enhanced ex properties to overcome it's handicaps or fix it's range hit box and frame set up, seeing it whiff in the air is all too common.

Base Sonya universal improvements,

combos

B3,3, f4: should have better recovery on block.

2,2,4: is gorgeously animated, looks beautiful in motion. but I wish It offered more, it has weak damage, it cant be cancelled into and it's pressure options are limited. ideally this move should be cancellable.

special moves:

After the previous patches I think her existing special moves have reached equilibrium. But I would like to see her rising bicycle make a return for Nostalgia's sake.

Normals:

Throw has a -4 hit advantage , which puts Sonya at risk unnecessarily.

Standing 3, I don't see any use for this, it isn't effective at anything.

down 4, cancel does not execute smoothly, it needs some refining.

Brutalities:

New brutalities.

Covert Ops Air Throw Brutality, finish opponent off with air throw and Sonya snaps their neck with her legs before rolling off.

Energy Rings Brutality, Use energy rings a specific amount of times in a match and finish opponent off with ex energy rings as the last hit resulting in a pink explosion of body parts.

I hope the support for MKX continues and am looking forward to see what in store for the game in the near future, Bo Rai Cho and Tri borg will certainly mix things up on the roster and I hope NRS don't forget about Sonya.
 
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xxFalcon Loverxx

Ignorant slaves, how quickly you forget.
Idc whatever they do with her but stop these jump back dive kick whiff then dive kick again.....online you can't punish it on block since she has enough time to jump back and do it again!!!Remove that but buff her in every way needed then.
 

LEGI0N47

I like to play bad characters
Agree that air throw sucks and a Brutality for it such as the one suggested would be pretty hot.
 

HugeMcBigLarge

Retirement my ass
I think small things like making her grab more + to give her oki options (it's almost not worth ever using atm) or just making all the distances she ends combos with (leg grab, or 21u4) either closer or more + on hit would be nice. As it is, most things space her out after a combo ender except if you end everything w/ 2134, which I guess is fine to have the option of 1% more dmg or oki situation, but blech. Want more + frames on hit on a lot of things (d4, f2!)
 

Dedlock

Apprentice
Idc whatever they do with her but stop these jump back dive kick whiff then dive kick again.....online you can't punish it on block since she has enough time to jump back and do it again!!!Remove that but buff her in every way needed then.
These dive kicks are angled low and causes a delay/stagger, best way to stop them is AA, it'll lose to any quick Anti air you've got any uppercut as well.

Agree that air throw sucks and a Brutality for it such as the one suggested would be pretty hot.
Yes indeed!
 

xxFalcon Loverxx

Ignorant slaves, how quickly you forget.
These dive kicks are angled low and causes a delay/stagger, best way to stop them is AA, it'll lose to any quick Anti air you've got any uppercut as well.



Yes indeed!
Wow! thanks for the tip!
IMO the buffs she needs is a faster OH cartwheel (MS4) and make MS1 useful in some way.....Maybe increase startup? Or just make it tick throw off of more strings....for example Erron Black has tick throws, why not make sonya have MS tick throws? Or will that just make her too unfair??
 
Standing 3 is an awesome AA normal. Not useless at all. Basically removes her entire upper hurtbox and allows for a follow-up juggle.

So yeah, doesn't need buffs in her current state.

IF they nerf the recovery on her divekick though CO should probably get something to compensate and keep her at equilibrium. I think that would be to allow MS to have meter gain like regular special moves.


Oh. Buff her awful fatalities.
 
Wow! thanks for the tip!
IMO the buffs she needs is a faster OH cartwheel (MS4) and make MS1 useful in some way.....Maybe increase startup? Or just make it tick throw off of more strings....for example Erron Black has tick throws, why not make sonya have MS tick throws? Or will that just make her too unfair??
She already has a bunch of tick throws
 

Dedlock

Apprentice
Wow! thanks for the tip!
IMO the buffs she needs is a faster OH cartwheel (MS4) and make MS1 useful in some way.....Maybe increase startup? Or just make it tick throw off of more strings....for example Erron Black has tick throws, why not make sonya have MS tick throws? Or will that just make her too unfair??
yes those would be good areas they could improve, her Kartwheel especially making it more useful apart from extending combos, but I could live with out them if they made her reverse kartwheel hit people in the air it would soup up her AA game , especially with post launch followups.

sort of like Nina's "reverse ivory cutter" in Tekken.
 
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Dedlock

Apprentice
What would sonya do with reverse ivory cutter in covert ops? It would be great for special forces. Besides her ring toss should be a mid imo and that's all she needs
Sonya's ex ring toss is a mid, if they were going to touch her normal ring toss then I'd reduce the recovery.

Sonya's MS3 already resembles the reverse ivory cutter, " a 2 hit reverse kartwheel that launches" if they have MS3 execute without having to touch the opponent it'll practically be Sonya's version of the reverse ivory cutter.
 

Dedlock

Apprentice
IF they nerf the recovery on her divekick though CO should probably get something to compensate and keep her at equilibrium. I think that would be to allow MS to have meter gain like regular special moves.
they already nerfed her divekick's whiff recovery from -5 to -13, if they touch it any further it'll be completely useless and they'll paralyze Sonya's mobility on the field. its bad enough we have to deal with wave after wave of zoners.
 

BigMilk

Former Divine Power Abuser
Doesn't she have one of the best d2's in the game? Plus some of the best mobility. Don't think she needs buffs in that area. I don't think she needs better Oki either given you have to guess every time she touches you. And ms2 is really good as well , just not used enough. It's her best option against some characters.
 
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Dedlock

Apprentice
Doesn't she have one of the best d2's in the game? Plus some of the best mobility. Don't think she needs buffs in that area. I don't think she needs better Oki either given you have to guess every time she touches you. And ms2 is really good as well , just not used enough. It's her best option against some characters.
her D2 has a diagonal hit box and has slow recovery on hit and block, its decent but I would never categorize it as the best D2 in the game.

Once you study her patterns there is no guess work it becomes obvious what Covert Ops Sonya is going to go for,

agreed about MS2 I don't use it as much as I should,

regardless though if MKX is going to be around for years to come I hope they tweak things to make Covert Ops more fresh for us die hard loyalists, I live and die on covert ops, even when its Shinnok (BS) Quanchi, Kitana and GM Sub.
 

Krabman

Mortal
her D2 has a diagonal hit box and has slow recovery on hit and block, its decent but I would never categorize it as the best D2 in the game.

Once you study her patterns there is no guess work it becomes obvious what Covert Ops Sonya is going to go for,
She has an amazing D2 and there's no argument that it's one of the top in the game. There is always a guessing game, I'm not sure how it's obvious what you're doing unless you are following one pattern and not mixing up.
 

BigMilk

Former Divine Power Abuser
She has an amazing D2 and there's no argument that it's one of the top in the game. There is always a guessing game, I'm not sure how it's obvious what you're doing unless you are following one pattern and not mixing up.
Exactly. Doesn't have to be the "best" but it's good enough that it doesn't need adjustments. And most d2 have a diagonal hitbox, or should at least. And you should never be predictable with any character.
 

Dedlock

Apprentice
She has an amazing D2 and there's no argument that it's one of the top in the game. There is always a guessing game, I'm not sure how it's obvious what you're doing unless you are following one pattern and not mixing up.
Could you clarify what makes her D2 one of the best in the game? I've compared it's start up, Active, recovery and block advantage frames and it's stats are average and on the weaker side on whiff recovery.

Comparatively these characters have better uppercuts

Best in game imo based on my understanding of their frame data.

1) Jax
2) shinnok
3) Takeda
4) Mileena
5) Ermac
6) liu Kang
7) kotal khan
8) Scorpion
9) Tanya
10) Kenshi
11) Dvorah (has more start up but better stats in other categories)

Sonya would be somewhere around 12 to 15, comparatively her uppercut has more start up frames, less active frames and more recovery frames on whiff. So that is why I cannot categorize her uppercut as one of the best uppercuts in the game.
 

Dedlock

Apprentice
Exactly. Doesn't have to be the "best" but it's good enough that it doesn't need adjustments. And most d2 have a diagonal hitbox, or should at least. And you should never be predictable with any character.
Nobody is asking for adjustments we're just discussing the notion of her D2 being one of the best in the game, which puzzles me exceedingly?
 
I think the confusion over her d2 being "the best" is due it sharing an animation with Flash's in Injustice.

Flash's D2 looked the same but was better in pretty much every way.

Sonya's d2 is good. It gets the job done. It does have a sort of "blind spot" vertically.
 

BigMilk

Former Divine Power Abuser
Nobody is asking for adjustments we're just discussing the notion of her D2 being one of the best in the game, which puzzles me exceedingly?
Well technically you are asking for adjustments, with reverse ivory cutters etc to help her AA game. And please don't be so literal with everything. I don't think anyone ever said it was the best d2. But it should be grouped along with better d2s in the game. 9 frame startup correct? No one cares about recovery frames on d2 because the entire point is to connect with it. I mean, what side do you think d2 should do?
 

Dedlock

Apprentice
Well technically you are asking for adjustments, with reverse ivory cutters etc to help her AA game. And please don't be so literal with everything. I don't think anyone ever said it was the best d2. But it should be grouped along with better d2s in the game. 9 frame startup correct? No one cares about recovery frames on d2 because the entire point is to connect with it. I mean, what side do you think d2 should do?
Yeah, I was discussing ways to spice up Covert Ops, especially if NRS are planning to keep making the game fresh. MS3 activating on whiff would be something I'd appreciate. To have it operate as a reverse ivory cutter would greatly increase my enjoyment in playing and open a new facet to Sonya's game.

As for D2, all of those I have listed have less than 9 start up frames, they've got quicker start ups and beefier active frames to catch delayed aerial moves. Recovery on whiff is important cause it gives the player an advantage if he mistimes the uppercut or is tricked by an opponents cancel/ dive kick.

But basically Sonya doesn't have "one of the best uppercuts" as some have mentioned, her uppercut is average with less than average recovery frames and less active frames to catch people.

So I'm just correcting this misconception, that some people are overating for mysterious reasons
 

spliti

Noob
She definitely needs some kind of buff.

NRS dropped the ball on her for sure when you compare her to some of the other dominate characters.