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Counter picking in tournament play

N0rdicNinja

Digital Pro Sports
This topic is mostly being created to avoid derailing another thread.
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Apparently people hate this? When playing casually or online I can understand how it can be annoying but in tournament play it should be expected and needs to be prepared for.

Anyone who decides to isolate themselves to a single character accepts the flaws that come with making that decision. Your opponent can rely on the fact that you will always play that character and they can choose a match up that puts the odds (theoretically) in their favor. Hate it or not there is nothing saying you have to play just one character throughout an entire tourney and when money is on the line one should expect people to stack the deck in their favor as much as possible. If you're good with a character that's good against your opponent it's a smarter way to play.

Character pride will make you a stronger player with that character but it has an inherent weakness, it makes you predictable. It certainly doesn't mean you're going to lose, and with enough dedication and time invested vs bad match ups you may even be able to swing things into your favor when someone does try to counter pick you. But you shouldn't be surprised when people attempt to take advantage of your pride just like you shouldn't be surprised to see Kung Lao spin every single time you jump.

I'm in no way implying that purists are bad players or that being a purist is a bad thing, but counter picking is a viable tactic and people should prepare for it, not frown upon it. It also causes some pretty hype moments when someone does a hidden select. =P

P.S. For reference, up until the writing of this I've mostly been a character purist myself, only once did I pick a different character than my main and it wasn't to counter pick, I started the tournament with my alt and eventually switched back to my main. So I'm not just trying to defend something I do.
 

BDMao88

Filthy Casual
I agree, but I find what people initially do is choose their best first match and then counter 2nd. Everyone has hidden pick as an option so there should be no complaints...
 

Mikemetroid

Who hired this guy, WTF?
Lead Moderator
I dont counter pick, however I have character pride for 2 characters. Cage wont do the trick? Stryker HAS to.
 

SwiftTomHanks

missiles are coming
I am a character loyalist. My favorite MK characters are (in order): Kung Lao, Ermac, Sektor, Raiden, Rain, Havik. I refuse to use any character but those. But I will use the best suited character for a match up in tournament play from now on.
 
I don't have a huge issue with it. Like there aren't any matchups with Liu Kang that I feel are straight up unwinnable. There's some that are worse than others obviously but I feel like I should be able to beat any character if I play my best game. If I beat a guy game 1 and he switches to Noob Saibot and wins games 2 and 3, I'm just gonna be like, nice Saibot dude. That was some really impressive whatever-it-was-that-beat-me.
 

Faded Dreams V

Retired June 2012. Unretired June 2013.
I agree.

Counter-picking does not work anyway unless the match up is 7:3 or worse. Generally speaking, you are not beating a "character specialist" with your secondary or tertiary character at a very high level of play in a high stake tournament.
Though I agree with this too, and would mostly use Smoke if I went to a tournament.
 

swag1

EX smash solves all
Hidden pick is an "option", but really with the shame, embarassemant, and loss of pride that you feel quite outmatch the small(er) advantage it gives, at least IMO.
 

Maxter

Kombatant
I'm a character loyalist too, my main(s) is) (are) Cage, Cyrax, Raiden, Stryker, Sektor, Sub zero, Noob saibot, Reptile, Jade, Jax, Kung lao, Smoke, Sindel, And learning some kitana now =).
we all have a favorite character of course, this thread is very informative, thanks nordicninja.
some people stay stuck with a single character and then they cry because they cant beat another character which is possible a bad match up, or maybe the player is just not good at this game, we all have a favorite character, even i do which is cyrax, and used to be my main, but in the real world this doesn't help on tournaments at all, "even the mighty justin wong had to switch to cammy because rufus couldn't beat wolfkrone c. viper at NECXI".
just because he is my favorite doesnt mean i gotta be loyal to him, i wish he could compete against the whole cast but that would make the game unbalance, you need diversities on fighting games and characters must always have abilities that counter attack others, otherwise the game would be boring.
detroit had to pick jax to beat cd jr smoke, CD jr had to pick jax to beat CD's kitana at Summer jam, and so on and so forth
we all need to learn at least 2 or 3 characters if we want to compete professionally, and i know all tournament players do.

This is just a game you don't need to show loyalty for any characters on it, you can have a favorite, but don't be obsessed with him, this wont make your emotions any different than a 5 years old kid's. sorry for my spelling i was in a rush, later all
 

Lt. Boxy Angelman

I WILL EAT THIS GAME
It never hurts to have more than one weapon in your pocket.

I've gone through the entire cast, and only found 3 people I'm comfortable enough with to take to a show.
All of whom have their own purposes and benefits.
I think that's a pretty decent number/strategy.

Maxter has 13 mains... we're fucked.
Lmao.
 

Faded Dreams V

Retired June 2012. Unretired June 2013.
I believe REO referred to people who stick to one character in tournaments as "cool homie bros." They probably won't make it out of pools unless their character is top tier, but they're cool homie bros.
 

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
By himself, NW is a great character but if I have to fight kabal and Freddy in winners finals and grand finals at the highest level of play...good luck to me.

That's why I play kabal as my secondary and raiden as my last resort...with a pocket kenshi for Osu. I needed kabal to stand a chance vs ATl redd in the last battle and brew and I will always be ready for the MU in tourney play. It's our responsibility to cover our characters weaknesses if we are to be competative.
 

16 Bit

Mash d+1~Cat Claws
Elder God
NetherRealm Studios
I agree.

Counter-picking does not work anyway unless the match up is 7:3 or worse. Generally speaking, you are not beating a "character specialist" with your secondary or tertiary character at a very high level of play in a high stake tournament.

This definitely applies to me. Even if I wanted to play multiple characters for strategic reasons it wouldn't work. I'd get blown up trying to adjust.
 

Mikemetroid

Who hired this guy, WTF?
Lead Moderator
Loyal List:
Johnny Cage, Stryker, Jax, Sub-Zero, Liu Kang, (Robo) Smoke, and the sexy Reiko.
 

Tim Static

Adminerator
Lead Moderator
Who cares? Just play, and do whatever it takes to win, within the rules given.

Stick with a character from start to finish or counter pick your way to the top. It doesnt matter.

The people who complain are usually the ones who are eliminated early or people who dont even show up and just watch streams.
 

9.95

Champion
If counter picking is a problem in the first match of a tournament, then players have the option to request a double blind select. This actually happened at Revolution X between CDJr. and CD I believe.

This is how it works(for all you TO's out there).

The player that requests the double blind select must whisper to the TO(or bracket runner...whomever is the authority enforcing the DBS) who he intends to use.

The other player must then pick his character.

The original player must now choose the character he told the TO that he was going to use, no exceptions.
 

Enenra

Go to hell.
I do sigh and shake my hand with a small laugh when I pick Noob and they de select their character and go to Raiden/Kung Lao. It pisses me off because I think that is a douchebag move.
 

Death

Warrior
I can play most of the cast on a decent level. But I'm all Sonya now for except maybe 5 matchups then ill counter pick with Mileena.
 

GNG Iniquity

#bufftaquito #punchwalk #whiffycage
I do sigh and shake my hand with a small laugh when I pick Noob and they de select their character and go to Raiden/Kung Lao. It pisses me off because I think that is a douchebag move.
Nah, he can win! okay it's HIGHLY doubtful.