Doombawkz
Trust me, I'm a doctor
With all of the talk about his command throw, I figured it'd be a nice time to accent his lesser known bretheren, the normal throw.
Here are some pros and cons, before we begin.
Command throw : Pros
16/18/20/24% damage without meterburn
Benefits from Venom Armor
Good positioning for Oki
Step forward gives it decent enough reach
Puts us in a no-grab state
Untechable
Can be combo'd into
Great for taking time off of the juice refill
Command Throw: Cons
d.b.f. is a hard input for beginners and even some veteran players
20 start-up frames means you either buffer it in or lose it on wake-up
Can be no-grabbed
Missed inputs can cause unsafe attacks to come out
If tapped (trades with someone elses's grab or someone no-grabs with an attack), its the full 20 frames of cooldown.
Duration is a bit long, meaning if you are drinking level 3 juice you can manage maybe one before the juice is gone.
Normal Throw: Pros
10 frames (2nd fastest attack we have behind 1, and faster than our d.1)
Half the duration (more venom time in exchange for less damage)
Decent positioning for Oki (leaves them about as far as double punch)
One-button input with grab priority
Puts us in a no-grab state
Normal Throw: Cons
No venom armor
Doesn't combo into anything, or out of anything
Not as good positioning as the command grab
Damage is only a little over half of command grab at 9/10/11/14% damage
Techable
Can be tapped
As you can see, each has their own good-sides. I know a lot of players have trouble with the command grab, so I'm going to make a push to use the normal throw more often. Lets face it, 10 frames of start-up is pretty dang fast, and it can make its way inbetween some of the more difficult strings. The range also is not bad, honestly. Just as an example, lets take the following...
b.1 is +12 on block, and our fastest response is a double punch which can be blocked and is -5, and a command grab which can be jumped on reaction. using those 17 frames it takes to grab them. Assuming they don't block the double punch, its 7% and some decent advantage on hit. Sounds great, right? Sure its -2% now, but that advantage will help us out a bit on the wake-up.
That's when you notice that in all the time it takes you to walk over, they have time to respond. They can ukemi and roll away before you have any time to take advantage. Now they can buffer in a wake-up attack to end off the roll and you could very well be dashing into free damage for the opponent. I'm not saying never use double punch, its an effective and fast overhead (although f.2d is faster and has better options, you get armor with double punch), however lets look at the same scenario with the throw.
b.1 is +12 on block, and you throw a grab which cannot be blocked but it can be teched out of. if they don't tech, its a free 9% with not much advantage on hit. "whats the deal?" You may ask. "I'd rather have the chance for oki than a meager 2%". I'm getting to that, stop interrupting. Kids these days...
Anyways, the grab should come out before anything the opponent has to respond to it does (7 frames if you count that +3 from the ending of b.1), and it leaves them unable to roll out. After this, you can buffer commands while your animation is ending. The position it leaves them in perfect range to command grab them afterwards, buffer in a charge to eat their wake-up, do a j.2/j.d.3 (which reaches, mind you) and a few other options. Whats more is they have only a split second after landing to input their command to fight off your options, and you have 3 choices that cover most all of the bases. Charge should catch most back-dashes and keep you in range, the command grab stops people from blocking, and jump attack should catch people trying to beat out the grab with attacks like deathstroke rifle.
If people like Deathstroke are using their sword flip as a wake-up option instead, it'll beat your 3 options but opens up 2 more for you, being Venom upper (which sets up amazing oki game and does about 11% by itself) and MB b.3 which will eat through it from that distance. This will be more a test of your yomi than your oki, but when you successfully perform it you can force the opponent into some pretty dastardly traps.
What if they tech the grab? All of this is nice and kosher, but if the grab gets teched we only do 2% and get no follow-up. On the contrary, our grabs getting teched puts us in a great position. From this distance, we can respond to ANYTHING with venomed double punch, command grab, a dash-in, a MB b.3, f.2d, and so on. We get some standing oki game because in that -5 its their inputs against ours, and ours has armor. Whats more is everything is safe on block for us and f.2d can link itself into even more oki by cancelling it into venom upper on hit or double punch on block. The grab can be a window into keeping close to the opponent, and we really don't lose much of anything.
What can you take from this? To put it flat, people neglect his normal grab in favor of the damage of the command grab without looking at the clear benefits it could provide. It gives the opponent next to no time to actually think about their options and it becomes a true guessing game, and since they are forced into an auto-stand just about afterwards, they may leave themselves open to free command grabs and other attacks if they are too slow on the draw. It also gives us a chance to further abuse certain characters who have great up-close wakeup but not as good mid-range options (Flash, for example. His upwards tackle is invulnerable on wake-up but he doesn't really have any solid options for stopping the command grab pain train.).
This can also help newer players learn the jist of his playstyle and it gives you a decent amount of time to buffer in the command grab meaning you get the extra practice on the input since theres not as much of a rush and you have time to really focus on your directions.
Here are some pros and cons, before we begin.
Command throw : Pros
16/18/20/24% damage without meterburn
Benefits from Venom Armor
Good positioning for Oki
Step forward gives it decent enough reach
Puts us in a no-grab state
Untechable
Can be combo'd into
Great for taking time off of the juice refill
Command Throw: Cons
d.b.f. is a hard input for beginners and even some veteran players
20 start-up frames means you either buffer it in or lose it on wake-up
Can be no-grabbed
Missed inputs can cause unsafe attacks to come out
If tapped (trades with someone elses's grab or someone no-grabs with an attack), its the full 20 frames of cooldown.
Duration is a bit long, meaning if you are drinking level 3 juice you can manage maybe one before the juice is gone.
Normal Throw: Pros
10 frames (2nd fastest attack we have behind 1, and faster than our d.1)
Half the duration (more venom time in exchange for less damage)
Decent positioning for Oki (leaves them about as far as double punch)
One-button input with grab priority
Puts us in a no-grab state
Normal Throw: Cons
No venom armor
Doesn't combo into anything, or out of anything
Not as good positioning as the command grab
Damage is only a little over half of command grab at 9/10/11/14% damage
Techable
Can be tapped
As you can see, each has their own good-sides. I know a lot of players have trouble with the command grab, so I'm going to make a push to use the normal throw more often. Lets face it, 10 frames of start-up is pretty dang fast, and it can make its way inbetween some of the more difficult strings. The range also is not bad, honestly. Just as an example, lets take the following...
b.1 is +12 on block, and our fastest response is a double punch which can be blocked and is -5, and a command grab which can be jumped on reaction. using those 17 frames it takes to grab them. Assuming they don't block the double punch, its 7% and some decent advantage on hit. Sounds great, right? Sure its -2% now, but that advantage will help us out a bit on the wake-up.
That's when you notice that in all the time it takes you to walk over, they have time to respond. They can ukemi and roll away before you have any time to take advantage. Now they can buffer in a wake-up attack to end off the roll and you could very well be dashing into free damage for the opponent. I'm not saying never use double punch, its an effective and fast overhead (although f.2d is faster and has better options, you get armor with double punch), however lets look at the same scenario with the throw.
b.1 is +12 on block, and you throw a grab which cannot be blocked but it can be teched out of. if they don't tech, its a free 9% with not much advantage on hit. "whats the deal?" You may ask. "I'd rather have the chance for oki than a meager 2%". I'm getting to that, stop interrupting. Kids these days...
Anyways, the grab should come out before anything the opponent has to respond to it does (7 frames if you count that +3 from the ending of b.1), and it leaves them unable to roll out. After this, you can buffer commands while your animation is ending. The position it leaves them in perfect range to command grab them afterwards, buffer in a charge to eat their wake-up, do a j.2/j.d.3 (which reaches, mind you) and a few other options. Whats more is they have only a split second after landing to input their command to fight off your options, and you have 3 choices that cover most all of the bases. Charge should catch most back-dashes and keep you in range, the command grab stops people from blocking, and jump attack should catch people trying to beat out the grab with attacks like deathstroke rifle.
If people like Deathstroke are using their sword flip as a wake-up option instead, it'll beat your 3 options but opens up 2 more for you, being Venom upper (which sets up amazing oki game and does about 11% by itself) and MB b.3 which will eat through it from that distance. This will be more a test of your yomi than your oki, but when you successfully perform it you can force the opponent into some pretty dastardly traps.
What if they tech the grab? All of this is nice and kosher, but if the grab gets teched we only do 2% and get no follow-up. On the contrary, our grabs getting teched puts us in a great position. From this distance, we can respond to ANYTHING with venomed double punch, command grab, a dash-in, a MB b.3, f.2d, and so on. We get some standing oki game because in that -5 its their inputs against ours, and ours has armor. Whats more is everything is safe on block for us and f.2d can link itself into even more oki by cancelling it into venom upper on hit or double punch on block. The grab can be a window into keeping close to the opponent, and we really don't lose much of anything.
What can you take from this? To put it flat, people neglect his normal grab in favor of the damage of the command grab without looking at the clear benefits it could provide. It gives the opponent next to no time to actually think about their options and it becomes a true guessing game, and since they are forced into an auto-stand just about afterwards, they may leave themselves open to free command grabs and other attacks if they are too slow on the draw. It also gives us a chance to further abuse certain characters who have great up-close wakeup but not as good mid-range options (Flash, for example. His upwards tackle is invulnerable on wake-up but he doesn't really have any solid options for stopping the command grab pain train.).
This can also help newer players learn the jist of his playstyle and it gives you a decent amount of time to buffer in the command grab meaning you get the extra practice on the input since theres not as much of a rush and you have time to really focus on your directions.
