Character Strengths and Weaknesses Synopsis

[TheChad_87]

For her cons, when you stated slow combo starters/normals, I lol'ed. Have you ever used her 2? her 3? .

No, I have not. I did not write her section and do not play the character. Most of these were lifted from a post by 16_Bit. I also consider anything over 10 frames to be slow. Not terribly so, but slow in comparison to say Johnny Cage.

Great post though. Thanks for all your input. Very helpful indeed.

 

[Playpal]

Weak mix ups seems to be broad and misleading in this post. Are you talking about low/overhead mix ups? Sometimes those just aren't necessary for some characters. Raiden, JC and Kitana, who have weak mix ups according to the post, don't need them. You should always be blocking low against these characters even though they don't have any low starters but quite a few overheads. Then you have Quan chi who supposedly good mix ups, but it takes a really good QC player to utilize them because you can react to pretty much anything QC does.

Shang Tsung's ground skull is 0 on block and doesn't jail, so I don't think that's a frame trap (up close). Then again, it depends on your definition of a frame trap. There are also up skulls that can be utilized too I guess.

 

[TheChad_87]

Liu Kang does have an overhead combo starter. 213.

I think first hit when I think combo starter. Liu's overhead is too easy to fuzzy to count.

Weak mix ups seems to be broad and misleading in this post. Are you talking about low/overhead mix ups? Sometimes those just aren't necessary for some characters. Raiden, JC and Kitana, who have weak mix ups according to the post, don't need them. You should always be blocking low against these characters even though they don't have any low starters but quite a few overheads. Then you have Quan chi who supposedly good mix ups, but it takes a really good QC player to utilize them because you can react to pretty much anything QC does.

Shang Tsung's ground skull is 0 on block and doesn't jail, so I don't think that's a frame trap (up close). Then again, it depends on your definition of a frame trap. There are also up skulls that can be utilized too I guess.

In the guide mentioned that these are going into mix-up is defined as ability to perform H/M/L attacks. I realize you can apply mix-up to other things as well.

 

[Playpal]

^
And what's your argument for that? Raiden's VC blast and Kitana's cutter are 0 on block and JC's ex force balls give advantage. All these can be avoid by low blocking.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

This is what you said about Mileena

Mileena
Weaknesses
- Extremely slow normals <---Sort of but not really.
- Weak pressure game <---No
- Most specials are punishable on block <---Most in the game are
- No armored specials <---If she had armor we'd have mileena with 10 Major wins


..................Excuse me? Weak pressure? No

Also your weaknesses for sonya are not weaknesses.

You listed:
- Steep learning curve/Technically challenging <---this is a U problem (meaning not you but the player who cant, NOT A WEAKNESS)
- Struggles against zoning (This one is good point)
- No good use for meter aside from breaker (I wish my characters could punish for 51% w no meter so i could save it for breaker.........I mean really come on, the fact she doesnt need to use it at all to win on high level is a weakness??? Massive Strength)

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Also for raiden you need to add this as a weakness


EVERY STRING YOU CAN POKE HIM OUT OF MID HIT IN BETWEEN EVERY HIT

 

[Playpal]

All of Raidens combos start with overheads, Johnny cage can end f33 with b3, which is an overhead that gives advantage, Kitana had an overhead launcher... Just a few reasons.

VB and cutter give a safe jump. JC's ex force balls give advantage on hit and on block. Both can be avoided by blocking low and fuzzy guarding. It's not always easy, but learning to do so is important against these characters. Really, your post just supported my argument that these characters don't need low starters.

 

[rev0lver]

No, I have not. I did not write her section and do not play the character. Most of these were lifted from a post by 16_Bit. I also consider anything over 10 frames to be slow. Not terribly so, but slow in comparison to say Johnny Cage.

It's really only a difference of like 3 frames, 2 is still pretty fast. The advantage is the range it has. When you have a string that's pretty fast, has better range than the best normals of all the rushdown characters, and is hit-confirmable into a 45% (give or take some %'s depending on preferences) combo, she becomes one of the best close-up characters in the game.

 

[TheChad_87]

It's really only a difference of like 3 frames, 2 is still pretty fast. The advantage is the range it has. When you have a string that's pretty fast, has better range than the best normals of all the rushdown characters, and is hit-confirmable into a 45% (give or take some %'s depending on preferences) combo, she becomes one of the best close-up characters in the game.

And I totally agree, but those are points other than the actual speed of the attack that make it good.

@Pig:
I said Raiden's strings were interruptable.
I agree with you on Mileena. I play her and think her pressure is great, but several others disagreed telling me that I was only getting by with my pressure strings because it was online. Since you agree, I will change this.
As far as high learning curve. I understand it isn;t really a weakness, but it was requested by others that I tag the harder to learn characters. SRK lists something similar as a weakness for C.Viper.

Also, Mileena has to have something listed. She has slow normals. This is something that someone looking to pick her up should be aware of, imo. I do realize that she would be amazing if she had an armored special, but it is something she lacks, and IMO, worth mentioning.

 

[D_Matt_Ma]

Some stuff about Sheeva is wrong.
She does not have poor meter gain.
She does not have poor zoning. She isn't a zoner and doesn't have great zoning, but a mid hitting fireball with a big hitbox that is safe on block from all distances and hurts like crazy means she wins trades.
Her telestomp and ground stomp aren't good moves. They shouldn't be a Strength.

Strengths that should be added
Command Grabs are unbreakable combo enders.
Arguably the best Meter Using moves in the game > replaces armored EN command throws

Weaknesses that should be added
No readily accessible overhead hitting moves.

 

[Playpal]

So it's a mixup. I agree that they don't need low starters but what your saying is if these moves were to hit you, then you would get a safe jump or whatever. But the debate here is about blocking.

By low blocking you take away some mix up opportunities. You never know, you might get hit with a surprise cutter, leading into a jip putting you right back into the same situation.

Ever been in the corner with Kitana? D1 cutter, d1 cutter, d1 cutter. I mean, yeah you can beat the d1 but good luck. JC: f33B3 ex force ball all day, and it's not easy for JC to run out of meter.

 

[Seapeople]

This is how REO & some other guys based the characters in MKDC / MKA. It doesn't have to be done like this but it could be helpful.

Punishing / Whiff punishing: ?/3
Anti-Air / Air to Air: ?/3
Damage: ?/4
(50/50) Offense: ?/5
Miscellaneous (Resets, Unbreakables, etc): ?/3

Other things to consider:

Wake-up: ?/3
Spacing / Mobility: ?/4

Final Rating: ?/25

 

[B W1zZ]

All of Raidens combos start with overheads, Johnny cage can end f33 with b3, which is an overhead that gives advantage, Kitana had an overhead launcher... Just a few reasons.

Correction: 2 of Raiden's combos end in overheads, B312 and 334. They both start mid.

Also blocking low against Raiden isn't the end all be all answer. The last hit of his strings are overheads, and he can mix up his jump in punches by going straight into a F4 overhead or a D4 low for massive advantage on hit, leading to an uninterruptible follow up string.

33 and B31 into VB is a mixup, since if you duck to try and punish a VB, in most cases b312 or 334 will pop you up. Blocked VB puts Raiden back at neutral, and he can stuff most followup attempts with 121 or D1/D3. Instead of VB theres also teleport, :en teleport, :en lightning. Lots of different mixup options.

As far as fuzzy guarding, that only goes so far, since it's easy to stop B312 between any hit and follow up with a throw/poke etc.

 

[Goldi]

Wow! Great job! Thank you, Chad.

Could I convince you to make a glossary of the fighting game terms? I don't know what a standing reset is, and I'm not too certain of others. A reference guide would make me sooo happy.

 

[Robotic]

Some stuff about Sheeva is wrong.
She does not have poor meter gain.
She does not have poor zoning. She isn't a zoner and doesn't have great zoning, but a mid hitting fireball with a big hitbox that is safe on block from all distances and hurts like crazy means she wins trades.
Her telestomp and ground stomp aren't good moves. They shouldn't be a Strength.

Strengths that should be added
Command Grabs are unbreakable combo enders.
Arguably the best Meter Using moves in the game > replaces armored EN command throws

Weaknesses that should be added
No readily accessible overhead hitting moves.

I think it's semantics. She has slooow zoning: Her fireball has slow startup. This means I launch a Quan Chi skull or a Sektor missile at the same time Sheeva does her fireball and she will take that damage while I have all the time in the world to block or duck. By virtue of that math, she DOES NOT win trades.

 

[NKZero]

I know Raiden is a good character, but why is he considered one of the best? What does he have that seperates him from the rest? He's always considered the absolute best or thereabouts, so I would like to know why...

 

[DragonPick]

His teleport, I guess? It helps him be really defensive and it's not the easiest thing to react to.

 

[leek]

I know Raiden is a good character, but why is he considered one of the best? What does he have that seperates him from the rest? He's always considered the absolute best or thereabouts, so I would like to know why...

Teleport.

It shuts down anything from anyone. escapes cages pressure, get away from projectiles , whatever. It's not what it does to your opponent, but what it keeps from you, rather.

 

[Death]

This chad guys a joke. This guy ragedquit on me before and was complaining about mileenas D+4. Another occasion was that he chose Mileena i hid cursor and chose mileena. He quits when the match starts. Then complains some more. And now its at the point whenever he sees me he declines.

LOL @ anyone who takes this clown seriously.

 

[SLy]

I wouldnt say Kitanas Mix up makes for a weakness..Her Mix up game is pretty decent..Not the best but definitley not bad

 

[Prinz]

Jade strengths: Flash on wake-up makes wake-up invincible instantly, followed by anything you want without recovery; 3 types of projectiles do a pretty decent job against non-teleporters; Glow rapes even Raiden in the corner.

 

[Killphil]

Ermac strengths: Great zoning from midscreen and back
More than average damage with his bnb's
Full combo-able unblockable
Projectile with decent recovery

Ermac weaknesses: Slow overhead(no combo off it either)
No low starters (hard time defeating crouch block)
Laughable teleport(both regular and EX)
Only one string actually jails, the rest are slow/easy to get out of.

*Note- This isn't definitive, I'll change it based on what others say.

 

[ryublaze]

This chad guys a joke. This guy ragedquit on me before and was complaining about mileenas D+4. Another occasion was that he chose Mileena i hid cursor and chose mileena. He quits when the match starts. Then complains some more. And now its at the point whenever he sees me he declines.

LOL @ anyone who takes this clown seriously.

Umm Chad's awesome. Now shoo.

 

[TheChad_87]

Umm Chad's awesome. Now shoo.

He left out the part where I sang to him, and then offered him a link to my amateur porn vids

I pretty much troll anyone with a clan tag. My way of saying "Hi. This is online, and you take this game too seriously." ^_^

Also, in reference to trying to "expose" me on TYM.

In other news,

BUMP

Anyone have anything to add, especially for the characters that are blank and the DLC characters?

 

[GodsLonelyman]

This chad guys a joke. This guy ragedquit on me before and was complaining about mileenas D+4. Another occasion was that he chose Mileena i hid cursor and chose mileena. He quits when the match starts. Then complains some more. And now its at the point whenever he sees me he declines.

LOL @ anyone who takes this clown seriously.

It's online, just for the simple fact that you take online so seriously I feel safe to say you're the clown. Seriously, it's an interesting thread, not perfect, but a good thread regardless. Go brag about your online laggy wins elsewhere.

Ermac strengths: Great zoning from midscreen and back
More than average damage with his bnb's
Full combo-able unblockable
Projectile with decent recovery

Ermac weaknesses: Slow overhead(no combo off it either)
No low starters (hard time defeating crouch block)
Laughable teleport(both regular and EX)
Only one string actually jails, the rest are slow/easy to get out of.

*Note- This isn't definitive, I'll change it based on what others say.

His F4,B1 is a low starter. Doesn't lead to damage but it is indeed a low. This F4 can also be used to reset an oponnent into another guessing game. ie: 3,1~lift, jk~tp, F4. Grounds them again and resets the situation. Not useless at all.

just re-read it and figured out what you meant. The second part gives it away lol. You meant no overhead starters, yup, blows chunks.