General/Other Changes Bane will need in the future

[jfunkey]

RYX
LEGI0N47
AA25Mamba
big_aug
PND_Mustard
chief713
-Deadman-
Doombawkz

I've gone through some thought and i feel for Bane to stay at very least a small threat in high level play he's going to need some buffs

The changes I would make are as followed:

Make f.2 useful in someway either a really hard knockdown ex. Nightwing's 223 string or make it not as negative on block.
Apply the change to f.2 to the "Juiced" string (112)
Change the string "Veritas Liberat" (f.2 d, 2) to either be special cancellable or something useful
Rework the string "Infinite Crisis" (f.2 d, 3), either make it not as negative on block OR My thought is to make the 3 wallbounce so that it's still a risk to use it if blocked but has a reward now that is worth the risk.
OPTIONAL: My change that i have been wanting for a long time is to give bane a MB option that wallbounces/ground bounces. It would add a lot of depth to his combos and make some of his weaker MB options better and overall give him a use for meter besides Command Grab, pushblock and clash and the occasional super. My thought was to make Venom Uppercut's MB to wallbounce, in it's current state it knocks the opponent across the stage and doesn't help bane at all.

Thanks for reading! Feel free to add feedback or suggestions!

 

[ShadowBeatz]

I don't really use F2 too often tbh, so I won't really comment on that.

As far as his MB options go, I actually love the fact that his MB options don't really make too much of a difference. No real need to use them means I almost always have 4 bars when I get clashed. And he doesn't really need combo depth imo. He's got good frame traps and decent mix-ups. He's not too combo oriented, being a brawler and all

 

[GodsLonelyman]

I've used Bane on and off so my experience might be limited. My gripes were: His normals are slow, to the point that they became kinda useless in certain matchups. I found myself relying solely on venom armored special mixups on knockdowns. I found myself getting constantly poked after a body splash crossup D3 all the time as well. His F2D was another gripe of mine. The startup is very slow and with this games muddy inputs, I found myself doing a f2 instead 70% of the time which is bad, since it launches them far away.

I still don't understand why they made F2 cancelable and not his BF1 charge. The f2 doesn;t even have armor unless you;re at level 3 I think, so seriously whatst he point? For mind games? Yea good luck, by the time you cancel you;re getting poked. His charge BF1 I rarely ever used as well. He telegraphs it, and everyone can jump over it and punish you hard. Outside of using it after combo enders and off a F2D, I don't see the point of this move, unless you're facing a zombie that keeps spamming projectiles and lets you get to level3 and eats the charge. What makes it worse is after hit, the stupid flexing animation he does wasting precious time. I also hated his DBF3MB backbreaker. It may do more damage, but it doesn't even leave you at advantage.

Another gripe of mine was his anti air grab. That thing either sucks or jumpins have way too much priority in this game, I found myself getting punished constantly trying to anti air people ON READS. And lastly, I dislike his floaty jump. Jumping with him kinda feels like you're in a no gravity zone. It;s hilarious because the other character I play green arrow has a floaty jump too, guess I have a knack for picking the floaters. With that said, I have no idea how they can make Bane more competetive. i think part of the issue is that his design is flawed or just doesn;t fit in this game. Or maybe I just don;t understand the character or how he's meant to be played. It just seems to me that all odds are against him in this type of game.

 

[ETC AdmiralAugustus]

Alright Marty McFly, where's my tag?!?! ;_;

Also, make his AA just like Grundy's

 

[Red Venom]

This thread is relevant to my interests, I wish I was tagged Bane stays my original main

 

[AA25Mamba]

At this point I feel like Bane can hold his own. He's got the increased mobility with the faster dash, and the venom cooldown decrease helped a lot. As a Bane player you need to stay on opponents like a junkyard dog. I don't see many changes to him that would give more of an advantage than he has now.

With that said, his Ring Toss eats at me because it's a useless move when it comes to doing what it was meant to do. It doesn't even gain a hit of armor with Venom. If that were the case, it would be a great asset. Venom Uppercut is a good AA, but if it whiffs or is blocked you're left in a punishable state. Having Ring Toss with a bit more reach or a hit of armor would give the move the umph it needs to do what it needs to do.

Other than that, I don't see what you could do. Sure, they could slap some new numbers on frame data, but I'm pretty happy with his frame data. Regarding his jump, you don't really need to jump with Bane unless you're going for a cross-up in the corner or can predict certain moves that require a jump in retaliation.

I'm content with Bane other than the useless ring toss.

 

[LEGI0N47]

Yes it would be nice to have F2 be safer.

The two combo strings you listed don't really need to be special cancelable because F2D by itself already is. It connects to any special as well as bounce cancels for unclasable damage for 2 bars. Though I must admit it would be nice to be like the entire cast and have a launcher you could get a free bounce with, even if it costs a bar. Yes the input sucks, no one will argue that, but it's quite handy sometimes and neutral on block. Also those combo's are both quite unsafe and IMO un-usable unless we discover something which I doubt.

MB Venom uppercut bouncing would negate bounce cancels which take 2 bars so that wouldn't be balanced. Also in the corner a MB Venom uppercut sets up a nye unescapable cmd grab.

I have called for a a MB special in the past that provides a ground bounce like most of the cast but I don't know if that would be moaned about or not, would still be nice though. If we had one it would be possible to have the highest combo damage in the game with Venom, backround bounces, and interactables added in. Meh why not when others have vortex's, OTG's, resets, 50%+ meterless etc.

Charge cancel would be welcomed but I can live without it. I only use it to punish zone spam, especially singe hit projo's, or if they don't jump it I will chip the shit out of someone with Venom juiced charges sometimes.

You're right his normals leave more to be desired as does much of the character. He just didn't get as good of tools as most of the cast. Just hope for an actual good, scary Bane if they make a sequel.

You're also dead on about his Air Grab. It's crap as a stand alone AA and Jumps ins have way too much priority, period.

In the end we won't get any new moves. Only frame changes. Anything else would be a stretch and shocking as well.

 

[Error]

MB Venom uppercut bouncing would negate bounce cancels which take 2 bars so that wouldn't be balanced. Also in the corner a MB Venom uppercut sets up a nye unescapable cmd grab.

There's so many launching specials, some meterless and safer than Venom Uppercut, anyways, ground bounce cancels are pretty useless/situational as it is.

 

[Doombawkz]

RYX
LEGI0N47
AA25Mamba
big_aug
PND_Mustard
chief713
-Deadman-
Doombawkz

I've gone through some thought and i feel for Bane to stay at very least a small threat in high level play he's going to need some buffs

The changes I would make are as followed:

1) Make f.2 useful in someway either a really hard knockdown ex. Nightwing's 223 string or make it not as negative on block.
2) Apply the change to f.2 to the "Juiced" string (112)
3) Change the string "Veritas Liberat" (f.2 d, 2) to either be special cancellable or something useful
4) Rework the string "Infinite Crisis" (f.2 d, 3), either make it not as negative on block OR My thought is to make the 3 wallbounce so that it's still a risk to use it if blocked but has a reward now that is worth the risk.
5) OPTIONAL: My change that i have been wanting for a long time is to give bane a MB option that wallbounces/ground bounces. It would add a lot of depth to his combos and make some of his weaker MB options better and overall give him a use for meter besides Command Grab, pushblock and clash and the occasional super. My thought was to make Venom Uppercut's MB to wallbounce, in it's current state it knocks the opponent across the stage and doesn't help bane at all.

Thanks for reading! Feel free to add feedback or suggestions!

1) Its already useful in its own way by giving us projectile immune dashes. I like it.
2) I'd rather be able to turn 112 into 112.d
3) It is useful, have you seen the spacing and advantage?
4) Every character has 1 or 2 strings you shouldn't use. 112 and f.2.d 3 are those strings. In the corner, sets up nicely for wake-up supers.
5) Unnecessary, we already do like 45% meterless without venom, wallbounces for an extra 10% would make him too much of a monster. Especially at level 3 venom, that wallbounce would lead the way into 1 bar 80-90% combos.

That's my opinion. Heres what he needs...

1) Stacks of venom also provide armor per stack. Level 2 gives 2 armor (lets us eat rangs, daggers, etc) and level 3 gives us 3 hits (able to eat through MB lightning and Chain gun). That alone would shift a lot of MUs in our favor.

2) Faster charge (maybe drop off about 6-9 frames off of it)

3) Parry immunity at level 3.


That's all.

 

[Tiger Wong]

I actually don't have much of a problem with Bane's DB1. I don't use it as an AA and I don't think that's it's main purpose.

It's purpose is to deter people from jumping away. Not from jumping in. If you gave it armor, then what would be the purpose of DB2?

- I'd love for 112 to have the option of being 112d.
- I'd REALLY love to just get rid of that weird ass F2D motion. WTH? Just make it df2.
- Also, while we're changing motions...... Turn F2 into Bane's B3. Get rid of the dropkick for his B3.
- I'd like to say Doombawks stole my thunder on how the armor stacks with the levels but....... I'm pretty sure he's been playing Bane longer than me so I'll just say "Yeah! What he said about the armor-stacking thingy!"
- I'd finally like BF2 to leave you on top of the enemy/within standing 1 range at the same frames is it now instead so frigging far away after it connects. Or at least make where you pose at a specific spot all the time.

 

[Error]

5) Unnecessary, we already do like 45% meterless without venom,

What combo is this, is this something he can always do or is it a stage bounce?

 

[Doombawkz]

What combo is this, is this something he can always do or is it a stage bounce?

To my knowledge its like j.d.3 b.23 b.23 12 command grab or something, though it MIGHT need level 1 venom. Still, ya know... very very low risk for a decent reward.

 

[ETC AdmiralAugustus]

To my knowledge its like j.d.3 b.23 b.23 12 command grab or something, though it MIGHT need level 1 venom. Still, ya know... very very low risk for a decent reward.

I'm assuming corner?

 

[Doombawkz]

I'm assuming corner?

Anywhere on the screen, actually.

 

[GodsLonelyman]

You could also do JD3, B23, B23, 123-Air Grab. it's 38 % meterless and without venom. Midscreen

 

[Doombawkz]

You could also do JD3, B23, B23, 123-Air Grab. it's 38 % meterless and without venom. Midscreen

Yeah but command grab and venom upper after 12 give you better advantage

 

[GodsLonelyman]

Yeah but command grab and venom upper after 12 give you better advantage

Definitely. This one is just good for squeezing a little extra damage if ya need it

 

[Doombawkz]

Definitely. This one is just good for squeezing a little extra damage if ya need it

Actually for the most part you are only gaining 2% by doing the second b.23 when you can just do the simple link of j.d.3 b.23 123 command grab for like 36%

 

[SUPARNOVAX]

First real change he needs is having stat reductions on Venom debuff removed.

Absolutely unnecessary.

Following changes I'd like to see...
Change f2d command to something else
Speed up f2 start up a little
Make body splash not cause the target to duck highs right after
Make double punch hit 2x on block anyways
Apply venom armor to db1 / Ring Toss.

 

[GodsLonelyman]

Actually for the most part you are only gaining 2% by doing the second b.23 when you can just do the simple link of j.d.3 b.23 123 command grab for like 36%

Hey 2 percent could win you a match. Yea I know im grasping at straws LOL. I wanted to ask, what would you followup j.d.3 b.23 123 command grab/venon uppercut with after knockdown? Give me a few scenarios and what level of venom you would require. I usually follow it up with another command grab if I think they wont wake up and If I think they might wake up I go for the bf2. I'm afraid of doing a b1 or b2 in fear I might get blown up with a wakeup attack. Another question, I've noticed that after a blocked b11 or b23 the command grab whiffs. Does it connect if you do a b1 or b2 only into commandgrab? Thanks.

 

[Doombawkz]

Make double punch hit 2x on block anyways

Good on paper, but its already neutral on block as a single hit. If we give it multi-hit properties, what would it be then?

 

[SUPARNOVAX]

Good on paper, but its already neutral on block as a single hit. If we give it multi-hit properties, what would it be then?

1% More chip and it makes newbs mash when they see things happen that's all. No real purpose.

I think the character design is fine as a whole. There's just unnecessary set backs that keep the character from beasting other characters down (i.e. venom debuff, stage interactables)

 

[Doombawkz]

Hey 2 percent could win you a match. Yea I know im grasping at straws LOL. I wanted to ask, what would you followup j.d.3 b.23 123 command grab/venon uppercut with after knockdown? Give me a few scenarios and what level of venom you would require. I usually follow it up with another command grab if I think they wont wake up and If I think they might wake up I go for the bf2. I'm afraid of doing a b1 or b2 in fear I might get blown up with a wakeup attack. Another question, I've noticed that after a blocked b11 or b23 the command grab whiffs. Does it connest if you do a b1 or b2 only into commandgrab? Thanks.

Oh goodness so much to cover and I'm no Bane expert...

Actually I am a bit of one, so I'll try to address everything in order.

2% could win you the match but just framing the link from the second b.23 into 123 isn't worth it efficiency wise.

I personally don't use command grab very often, I prefer Venom upper and usually the best follow up for either is just dash in and try to make that read. I've personally found blocking after the dash to be somewhat effective since a lot of character have unsafe wake-ups and the venom upper tends to rile people up when they are forced onto their backs. However, you can link a delayed command grab to hit meaty on wake-up and it'll catch a surprising amount of people. Likewise, you can do a late splash after the venom upper to cross up, it more opponent dependant than anything. Double punch is a good idea but it loses out to the invulnerable wake-ups because they tend to ignore the attack entirely. Moving yourself into range to poke them with a maximum range d.1 is also an amazing option at your disposal because if they don't wake-up you can get the +17 on hit with some meat or at the very least do a d.1 double punch low/OH mix-up, and with some characters if they do wake-up your hurtbox is a bit further back and low so some of the punishes flat out won't hit you.

b.1 and b.2 are good in certain situations, namely if you know your opponent won't wake-up attack because you've eliminated that option for them (Yomi), then a b.1 is a master key of a solution giving an amazing +16/+12 and having a recovery of only 9. That's means after a b.1 you can normal throw people for free just about using its low 10 frame start-up. You can also work blockstrings and mix-ups like b.1 double punch and b.1 d.1 double punch. The first is a simply low/OH that conditions them to block the 2nd hit high, while the other is a low/low/OH with the 2nd low giving +17 and opening the door for some block string mix-ups. If you are worried about wake-up attacks, do meaty b.1 cancelled into double punch as it'll let the b.1 eat the invuln frames and the double punch eat through everything else.

After b.11, delay the command grab by just a moment. Often trying to cancel it into a blocked string doesn't translate well. On b.23 if you mean on hit, the command grab has a slightly lower hitbox (you can see him crouch to scoop) so it can be a bit hard to land. HOWEVER doing b.23 dash under command grab (reverse inputs) is a sickeningly effective tool since the b.23 causes a fast stand state.

b.1/b.2 on hit I think can cancel into the command grab but you never have much reason to only b.2... b.1 on block you are better off going for the normal throw, and b.1 on hit you should be going into frame traps since the +16 gives your arsenal basically a bunch of 1-2 frame attacks.

 

[Doombawkz]

1% More chip and it makes newbs mash when they see things happen that's all. No real purpose.

I think the character design is fine as a whole. There's just unnecessary set backs that keep the character from beasting other characters down (i.e. venom debuff, stage interactables)

I mean imagine it though, DS guns are -125 but because they are multi-hit they go down to being -15 at the most. Our double punch is neutral on block with a 23 frame recovery just about, so if theres 2 hits then my word lol...

 

[SUPARNOVAX]

I mean imagine it though, DS guns are -125 but because they are multi-hit they go down to being -15 at the most. Our double punch is neutral on block with a 23 frame recovery just about, so if theres 2 hits then my word lol...

That's not how balancing occurs. It has nothing to do with multiple hits or not.

It's just an annoying perk I see when I do something and it gets blocked for half while everyone else gets to let the rest of their stuff ride out that's all.