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Match-up Discussion Can't beat Skarlett.

Durango

Enhancer
Today I fought a player who took complete control of everything I did. If I put up an Ice Clone as a wakeup move, she would bust right through it with a dash and do even more damage as a result. No matter how many combos I threw at her, it was never enough until I died.

I don't know how to counter her reset. It's also very difficult to figure out when she's attacking low or overhead.
 

JHCRANE 14

GO VOLS!!!
Today I fought a player who took complete control of everything I did. If I put up an Ice Clone as a wakeup move, she would bust right through it with a dash and do even more damage as a result. No matter how many combos I threw at her, it was never enough until I died.

I don't know how to counter her reset. It's also very difficult to figure out when she's attacking low or overhead.
Scarlet has some bugs that need to be fixed. As of now, Scarlet vs Sub-Zero is a complete mismatch for Sub-Zero. When NRS updates the patch for Scarlet it will be more fair. So for now choose someone else to fight her, like Smoke.
 

salvificblood

Worst Sub-Zero Ever
Premium Supporter
Use somebody else against her. You really can't do anything with Sub-Zero against Skarlet. You can't slide underneath daggers, you don't have armour yet, your dash is ass and she pushes you back to where you started from if you try to dash block your way in. You're basically stuck midscreen because you can't shoot back with anything. Ex ice will get stuffed the same as regular iceball.

Even after the patch I will probably still use Noob against Skarlet.
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
Played against a guy who did the broken slide upslash thing. well... exslide upslash. That stuff is stupid. he couldn't dagger cancel so he lost... but it was annoying to get hit with something that shouldn't exist.
 

mrsz

O.G. SZ
Please post matchup questions in the appropriate thread. It just makes the Sub-Zero forums less cluttered.

If a mod could merge this thread and that Johnny cage thread into the main matchup thread that would be helpful.
 

PND OmegaK

Drunk and Orderly
Premium Supporter
Played against a guy who did the broken slide upslash thing. well... exslide upslash. That stuff is stupid. he couldn't dagger cancel so he lost... but it was annoying to get hit with something that shouldn't exist.
To be fair, outside of the dagger cancels its the only thing that makes her worth playing.
 

Bidu

the CHILL of DESPAIR
There's absolutely nothing you can do against Scarlett as Sub-Zero as the game is right now.

Simple fact.

Accept it.

Move on.
 

Mt. Mutombo

Asshole by nature
To be fair, outside of the dagger cancels its the only thing that makes her worth playing.
Now that's just crazy talk right there, she's A+ tier easy. Good mind games, good pressure and bitch's got 50% meterless combos for fucks sake wtf you smoking brah!
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
Now that's just crazy talk right there, she's A+ tier easy. Good mind games, good pressure and bitch's got 50% meterless combos for fucks sake wtf you smoking brah!
no... i don't think so. The ones i've seen all include the red dash slide then an upslash. That apparently isn't supposed to exist. Then again I don't play her... so I could be wrong.
 

PND OmegaK

Drunk and Orderly
Premium Supporter
Now that's just crazy talk right there, she's A+ tier easy. Good mind games, good pressure and bitch's got 50% meterless combos for fucks sake wtf you smoking brah!
Those 50% combos are only possible because of the slide into upslash, and are a little situational. All of her strings are easily poked out of, or incredibly slow, so I'd like to know about this pressure game she has (assuming you aren't reffering to DCs). her overheads and lows can be seen coming from a mile away and give you easily enough time to react. Even her dagger cancels in their current state get punished pretty badly by about half the cast because you cant block after a cancel. Shes pretty much like cyber sub in that she dominates a lot of people, but gets dominated by the rest.
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
Those 50% combos are only possible because of the slide into upslash, and are a little situational. All of her strings are easily poked out of, or incredibly slow, so I'd like to know about this pressure game she has (assuming you aren't reffering to DCs). her overheads and lows can be seen coming from a mile away and give you easily enough time to react. Even her dagger cancels in their current state get punished pretty badly by about half the cast because you cant block after a cancel. Shes pretty much like cyber sub in that she dominates a lot of people, but gets dominated by the rest.
she isn't a rush down. her strings are meant to punish.
her 1,1 string is pretty freakin fast... and her combo's are stupid good at punishing. I can't say much, i've never played a really good Skarlet.
 
The match-up is only 9-1 or worse because of the dagger-cancel. OP doesn't seem to have a problem with that. Keep trying, and just familarise yourself with the match-up, same with any other. If you see her using her command-dash, block neutral always, because the slide doesn't launch, and it's safe anyway, whereas the other two do launch, and are punishable.

Other than that low/OH mixup, I don't really know of any other big ones. Just learn to recognise a mixup when you see it, and remember for next time. Experience is how you learn to win match-ups.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Royal Contributor
OmegaK said:
Those 50% combos are only possible because of the slide into upslash, and are a little situational. All of her strings are easily poked out of, or incredibly slow, so I'd like to know about this pressure game she has (assuming you aren't reffering to DCs). her overheads and lows can be seen coming from a mile away and give you easily enough time to react. Even her dagger cancels in their current state get punished pretty badly by about half the cast because you cant block after a cancel. Shes pretty much like cyber sub in that she dominates a lot of people, but gets dominated by the rest.
This post is very accurate.

Skarlet is simply a very difficult match up for Sub Zero because of dagger cancels and EX dash. The EX dash has super armor and the low follow up is safe, so Sub Zero can never trap her, even when he corners her.

Shoryuken said:
Does anyone know a good Skarlet player? I've been wanting to play a really good Skarlet in a set.
I have been using Skarlet ever since she came out. I live on the east coast, though.
 

Bidu

the CHILL of DESPAIR
Its not enough. Against a good Skarlet player who can dagger cancel to the frame, its a virtually unwinnable match for Subzero. Anyone who says otherwise simply hasnt fought a good Skarlet.
Exactly.

For those who play SSF4:AE I'd say it's like Dhalsim Vs. Yun. In this case scenario obviously Sub-Zero been Dhalsim. :)
 

Ninj

Where art thou, MKX Skarlet?
Premium Supporter
Skarlet is a tough fight for SZ, agreed. Skarlet's dash/slideslashing isn't being changed as far as we know though, so don't count on it.

Post patch, I'll be posting my matches in the Skarlet forums for analyzing and discussion. Anyone on XBL is welcome to msg me for some private matches.
 

salvificblood

Worst Sub-Zero Ever
Premium Supporter
To be honest, this matchup is currently the worst in the game. This is one of the reasons I wanted to pick up Cyber Sub-Zero. Play Cyber Sub for a few days and then go back to playing human Sub-Zero just to see how huge the mobility problem is for Sub-Zero in matchups like this. I honestly don't think all the buffs he's alleged to be getting will solve the problem, he will just sometimes win the odd round against Skarlet post patch. Possibly.
 
Although I find Skarlet a tough fight for SZ, I don't believe it's unwinnable...

Patience is key here, even though it may seem pointless dash block the projectiles and wait for your opportunity to punish. If you have metre, punish a wiffed slide or teleport with 2,1,2-ice ball into EX groundfreeze into b1,2,1. This will shut down her wake ups and gives you enough time to dash in for more pressure.
 

Bidu

the CHILL of DESPAIR
If you think you can win, it's because you just haven't fought a good Skarlett. Simple fact.

I don't wanna be negative here. I'm just been realistic.
 

Dark_Rob

Noob
If you think you can win, it's because you just haven't fought a good Skarlett. Simple fact.

I don't wanna be negative here. I'm just been realistic.
Agreed. But that may change now. With an armored slide we can knock her down now if she tries that dagger shit. And once that bitch gets knocked down shes in trouble.
 

BookBurning

Voidwards
I thought her daggers were given a much higher recovery or am I missing something? Or is it still too much for SZ to handle?