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Question - Hellfire Can you be a good Hellfire player without FBC?

Bloodfang

Bloodfang

The Immortal Tiger
Topic. I'm a decent player but I can't seem to nail the FBC or other run cancel stuff in general. I still terrorize my friends who play me with consistent 35-40% meterless anywhere combos so I still feel like Scorpion in Hellfire has so many tools that with good reads/mind games, he can still be a huge threat even without the FBCs. Does anyone agree or is it just that my friends and I aren't good enough for the lack of FBCs to matter but "real players" would laugh at the idea of a good non-fbc Scorpion strategy.
 
Tanno

Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
I played Ranked match against someone who was kind of good with Scorpion. I didn't anticipate the FBC. It gave me a good experience, so I'll have to be extra careful with Scorpion from now on.

You should learn the FBC first, and then go include it in your kombos.
 
CrazyFingers

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
Seriously, if you wanna play the character you need them cancels. Granted they're less effective now after the changes but still quite good.
 
Scott The Scot

Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
I'd just grind it out and try and implement over time if I were you. The loses you take from your friends trying to get better at the FBRC technique will pay off in time.

However it's not impossible to play run cancel-less, 21 is +2 on block and you have a 6 frame poke so you could really do some damage with maybe some throw/strike mixups. Honestly I'd just suck it up and learn how to do the cancels man, you will see results if you put in the work. Start slowly and then get faster.

@False God Confirmed has a lot of experience with Scorpion, perhaps he can chime in.
 
axcelerate

axcelerate

Mortal
Are you talking about fbrc mastery or a rep of 214 into 214. I feel as tho you need to be able to at least be able to combo off the low. Foward three into to fbrc into throw also is amazing. I agree with above I'd try and learn the bare minimum at first if you are on xbl I don't mind helping you. A stranger online taught me I'd love to pay it forward.
 
Tweedy

Tweedy

Champion
CrazyFingers said:
Makes his mixup not only safe but actually scary. Definitely this. When you eventually master the FBRC, B1 FBRC is the final barrier. Gives you a better mid for full combos.
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Fuck safe, it's +1. Sure nothing is guaranteed, but they have to poke you if they want a turn. Block the poke and take another turn.

Other Scorpion variations have to waste bar on B3 EX spear or be unsafe.
 
CrazyFingers

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
Tweedy said:
Fuck safe, it's +1. Sure nothing is guaranteed, but they have to poke you if they want a turn. Block the poke and take another turn.

Other Scorpion variations have to waste bar on B3 EX spear or be unsafe.
Click to expand...
Yup yup. Hellfire still has its place and I like that. The stamina changes only hurt the characters that do a shit ton of reps of stuff (A-List, D'vorrah) otherwise the stamina nerf wasn't a destruction of all the run cancel characters, only a couple.
 
STRYKIE

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
As far as why you would want to play the variation, yeah, FBRC is THE biggest component for Hellfire hands down. Opens up all kinds of conversionability, safety, and frame traps that Scorpion otherwise simply can't accumulate in some cases.

That said, Ninjutsu certainly has its own share of damage and mind games if you're not personally sold on what FBRCs are all about.

Tweedy said:
Fuck safe, it's +1. Sure nothing is guaranteed, but they have to poke you if they want a turn. Block the poke and take another turn.

Other Scorpion variations have to waste bar on B3 EX spear or be unsafe.
Click to expand...
Post nerf B3 FBRC is +2.

That said, I think lack of stamina may end up being more detrimental to Scorpion than lack of meter in this new meta once more dust settles, so "wasting a bar" is probably just more in preference than it being for better or worse.
 
Dr_3k

Dr_3k

Noob
Whats great about learning fbrc, is that once you learn one the rest come a lot easier and it makes the game that much more fun to play.
 
God Confirm

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
FBC definitely changed for Hellfire this patch. He only gets 1 on block so that's not a whole lot of pressure mix-ups anymore.


Key FBC's are:



F3 FBC F3~spear, this is like ur only safe advancing mid opener

S3 FBC, its a 7f high so basically like standing better than most other characters s1 pressure except from great range and even more plus, i dunno the exact frame data after the changes tho

B3 FBC i guess, but only really worthwile if you are mixing in the overhead, which is 26f and thats definitely in the realm of reactibility. F2 is there as well tho



his pressure used to all be about 213 FBC mixed in with 21 staggers, I don't know how viable that is now after the changes tho

The best thing about this character is undeniably flame aura, theres a lot of shenanigans involved with that move. But he makes a big trade off for it, because he literally goes from having some of the best neutral in the game in Ninjutsu, to probably the absolutely worst neutral in the game in Hellfire
 
Tweedy

Tweedy

Champion
Just mix up throws, F2 and B3 fbrc. It doesn't have to be super complicated. He doesn't need to cancel twice. Land a hit, proceed to mix.
 
Matix218

Matix218

Get over here!
My execution is mediocre at best and I am able to consistently do most fbrc stuff with hellfire. I would just practice a bit more, I guarantee you can do it. Your hellfire will only be stronger by adding it to your gameplan.
 
Matix218

Matix218

Get over here!
I would at very least learn b3 fbrc stuff which on hit will link into 214 giving you a safer low combo starter. Also 3 fbrc on hit links easily into 214 for a 7 frame punisher. Other then that just practice normal strings (21, 214, b12, 1, 11, etc) into fbrc into whatever (f2, b3, throw, tick throw). Just work your way up little by little and you will be implementing it into actual matches in no time.

Best way to learn the b3 fbrc 214 link is just set opponent to "auto" block so that way it will link if done correctly but if you mess up you will know because they will auto block the 214.
 
SpecOps2013

SpecOps2013

Mortal
Bloodfang said:
Topic. I'm a decent player but I can't seem to nail the FBC or other run cancel stuff in general. I still terrorize my friends who play me with consistent 35-40% meterless anywhere combos so I still feel like Scorpion in Hellfire has so many tools that with good reads/mind games, he can still be a huge threat even without the FBCs. Does anyone agree or is it just that my friends and I aren't good enough for the lack of FBCs to matter but "real players" would laugh at the idea of a good non-fbc Scorpion strategy.
Click to expand...
You will be better off playing Ninjutsu. I can't tell if your intepretation of "good player" is a player good enough to play professionally or a player good enough on ranked matches, but I can tell you without FBC you are unable to play professionally. FBC is a huge part of hellfire's game, although you may be able to survive in ranked. It gives him access to pressure and safe 50/50s and to a certain extent, greater damage. I understand that hellfire's execution is difficult, but what you can do is go to training mode and practise FBC consistently, first by doing pure FBC then doing strings into FBC. I wish you the best of luck in playing hellfire.
 
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