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Strategy - Warrior Calling All Lab Monsters!

Skedar70

Noob
Less meter dependent how? We still need meter to do damage, to get in at all, and so on. Our pressure is great for exactly one command grab, then we have to run in from full-screen with the slowest run speed in the game and no options. Also what oki? You mean taking a 28% combo to try and pressure with no respectable moves? Like what players are you playing where you can pressure with no meter against anyone? Where are you getting the idea that walk speed means anything?

Name me one projectile that b.f.3 can eat and punish, because barring point blank and a VERY heavy read, there isn't one that won't get you blown up for big damage for trying to be cute.

Walk speed doesn't mean diddly from the full-screen away, and bf3 eats projectiles and has armor for the first like... 4 frames, then it falls off. Every single move we have loses armor after the first half of it's animation.




Onto the actual topic:
Warrior is kinda spent. He doesn't really fill any specific niche that the other two don't manage well enough. Self-destruct has dirt, but none that'll hold up over a set probably.
You can pressure with b12 into a d1 check which doesn´t leave you that negative on block and allows you to stay in and mix up with 50/50 and command grab. Lackey d1 is the best in the game no other character has a better one. Oki: lackey can end a combo in bf3 which grants him a lot of hit advantage that allows you to go for 50/50, cross overs, command grabs etc. His jump speed and reach is better than predators and his foward dash is also way better which makes it easier to get in. Lackey can punish some projectiles with bf3 depending on the distance (e.g kitanas fans, mileenas sai, kung jin arrow) the opponent won't have time to jump either because it has a big hitbox. Lackey is still lacking but it is easier for him to get in and stay compared to warrior.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
You can pressure with b12 into a d1 check which doesn´t leave you that negative on block and allows you to stay in and mix up with 50/50 and command grab. Lackey d1 is the best in the game no other character has a better one. Oki: lackey can end a combo in bf3 which grants him a lot of hit advantage that allows you to go for 50/50, cross overs, command grabs etc. His jump speed and reach is better than predators and his foward dash is also way better which makes it easier to get in. Lackey can punish some projectiles with bf3 depending on the distance (e.g kitanas fans, mileenas sai, kung jin arrow) the opponent won't have time to jump either because it has a big hitbox. Lackey is still lacking but it is easier for him to get in and stay compared to warrior.
b.12 is only neutral at mid to peak distance, it's -1 otherwise. d.1 is -6, basically means your turn and game is over, and it hits mid so the opponent won't have any trouble blocking it. Also d.1 into command grab, as mentioned before, only works once. Not only is it armorable, but once you land it you trade 11% damage for the risk of never getting in again. If your d.1 manages to clip the opponent, then your grab whiffs and you get to hold anywhere from 29%-44% for your troubles.

Also Jason has a better d.1, as does Quan, Shinnok, and plenty of other characters. We have good speed, decent range, but our options out of it are almost none.

Lackey can end exactly 2 combos in b.f.3, neither of which do enough damage to make up for the amount you're losing by not cashing out. 50/50 is reactable at best, fuzzyable at worst because it's a difference between 16 frames and 22 frames. Cross-over is a gimmick, doesn't actually do anything for us worth a salt because you can buffer inputs to get around the control flip, and command grabs again only work once and then you're working in from full-screen. His jump speed is awful and he can't clear an ice clone because of it's short forward motion, his forward dash is sub-par at best and doesn't actually function as a viable means of getting in because of it's decently long recovery frames. Predator has the benefit of smart disc, he doesn't NEED to dash to get in because he can disk and run in while being covered by it.

Barring being point blank, not a single one of those projectiles can be reliably punished by b.f.3. They don't need to jump, they can block and then we lose out turn. Warrior has the benefit that if he cancels into a smart disc, it's not as simple to work around it. Lackey is just a matter of blocking 3 moves low and one move high, if you get command grabbed outside of the corner you basically get to earn that 11% back and then some just by zoning and forcing lackey to play a game he can't actually win at. Your best armored option to counter anything is the roll, which as it happens is pretty easy to counter from full screen because it loses armor.

Please, as optimistic as one can be, don't spread misinformation.
 

Skedar70

Noob
b.12 is only neutral at mid to peak distance, it's -1 otherwise. d.1 is -6, basically means your turn and game is over, and it hits mid so the opponent won't have any trouble blocking it. Also d.1 into command grab, as mentioned before, only works once. Not only is it armorable, but once you land it you trade 11% damage for the risk of never getting in again. If your d.1 manages to clip the opponent, then your grab whiffs and you get to hold anywhere from 29%-44% for your troubles.

Also Jason has a better d.1, as does Quan, Shinnok, and plenty of other characters. We have good speed, decent range, but our options out of it are almost none.

Lackey can end exactly 2 combos in b.f.3, neither of which do enough damage to make up for the amount you're losing by not cashing out. 50/50 is reactable at best, fuzzyable at worst because it's a difference between 16 frames and 22 frames. Cross-over is a gimmick, doesn't actually do anything for us worth a salt because you can buffer inputs to get around the control flip, and command grabs again only work once and then you're working in from full-screen. His jump speed is awful and he can't clear an ice clone because of it's short forward motion, his forward dash is sub-par at best and doesn't actually function as a viable means of getting in because of it's decently long recovery frames. Predator has the benefit of smart disc, he doesn't NEED to dash to get in because he can disk and run in while being covered by it.

Barring being point blank, not a single one of those projectiles can be reliably punished by b.f.3. They don't need to jump, they can block and then we lose out turn. Warrior has the benefit that if he cancels into a smart disc, it's not as simple to work around it. Lackey is just a matter of blocking 3 moves low and one move high, if you get command grabbed outside of the corner you basically get to earn that 11% back and then some just by zoning and forcing lackey to play a game he can't actually win at. Your best armored option to counter anything is the roll, which as it happens is pretty easy to counter from full screen because it loses armor.

Please, as optimistic as one can be, don't spread misinformation.
I didn't everything I said is true. All you did was downplay lackeys options. At least lackey has all of these options.

You are wrong with smart disc. Smart disc goes away if predator blocks or is hit and the recovery is really bad so you can't set up the disc and then run in. You will get hit by another projectile during the recovery of the disc and it will go away. If you cancel any string on block into disc you can be full combo punished. You can only do it on hit.

Lackey is way better IMO. You can have yours.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
I didn't everything I said is true. All you did was downplay lackeys options. At least lackey has all of these options.

You are wrong with smart disc. Smart disc goes away if predator blocks or is hit and the recovery is really bad so you can't set up the disc and then run in. You will get hit by another projectile during the recovery of the disc and it will go away. If you cancel any string on block into disc you can be full combo punished. You can only do it on hit.

Lackey is way better IMO. You can have yours.
You just said you can punish fan, Sai, and the like with charge. You can't outside of point blank and even that is on a read. That is misinformation, it's an inaccurate representation of the characters tools.

You claimed you can b.12 into a d.1 check, which as you said "doesn't leave you negative and let's you 50/50", not only disregarding that F/T doesn't actually even have a 50/50 because the two moves are decently far apart in frames, but also that even if he did the b.2 would completely whiff on an opposition bent you did b.12 d.1 on. On top of that, d.1 is -6, command throw is only an option in the corner, a whiffed tick throw has enough delay to full combo punish, b.12 at close range causes d.1 to lose out to other pokes, and so on.

Our stagger pressure exists in the form of b.121 into d.3 or b.1212, that's the sum of it.

Our jump speed is actually much worse than Predators because of its short reach, our huge hitbox, and the inability to delay landing it into disc. That was also misinformation.

For the sake of it also, I'm not downplaying. I'm actually reciting you frame data and stating what actually would occur during the pace of a match. You're tragically upplaying a character by claiming his tools do something that they just don't feasibly do.


Onto your statement about predator being unable to run in with disc, I encourage you to duck a projectile at full, throw a disc up, and see if the next one catches you before you can duck it. From my testing, you have more than enough time to disc, duck, and run to chase it in.

Also it's recovery isn't all that long, it's pretty long but predator isn't exactly a character you want to blindly jab into. Even a moment of hesitation makes the difference between a punish and getting hit, and against certain characters, predator can use his natural push-back on strings to scoot him out of jab range. He has surprisingly effective spacing tools, and no one is reacting to the 11-odd frames of start up on disc to make that punish. It's a read at best, a guess at worst.

Lackey is arguably the worst, bar none, absolute bottom character in this game. After they got rid of Mb Torryuken, we adopted about 3 unwinnable 9-1 or 8-2 MUs, and several 7-3s against us too
 

ARMOR

Khaos God
Premium Supporter
And how do you do that? Duck, walk, block your way in, and just 50/50 them if you get in range? If I go OH and they block high I lost a bar and I'm most probably back to fullscreen. What do you mean by offense? He has no real pressure or frame traps.
I still see no real reason to pick him except for the fun stuff - Self-detonate laugh and pimpslapping people for days. :^)
He may have the necessary tools, but other characters can do the same but better.
You are thinking of playing him "too properly" When disk is up go nuts
 

ARMOR

Khaos God
Premium Supporter
And if they try doing something do ex armor which will full combo if they were to try to contest the smart disk
 

YoloRoll1stHit

Publicly Educated
Can all of you guys stop talking about the characters you don't know shit about? Including all the "Lackey is better than Warrior" or "Disc helps him get in". Thanks. I don't know and I don't care. This is not the F/T forum
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Can all of you guys stop talking about the characters you don't know shit about? Including all the "Lackey is better than Warrior" or "Disc helps him get in". Thanks. I don't know and I don't care. This is not the F/T forum
F/T was put into the conversation by the OP, it's fair game. Besides, it's not off-topic to compare the character in questions tools to another character whom fills a similar archetype within the game and whom also suffers from a lot of the same problems (albeit lackey has it much worse)
 

HateMe!

Noob
You are thinking of playing him "too properly" When disk is up go nuts
Please tell me what do you mean by telling me to 'go nuts'. Press buttons which leave me at - frames and it's opponent's turn, or just do 50/50 when the disk is up and hope they guess wrong?
 

ARMOR

Khaos God
Premium Supporter
D
Please tell me what do you mean by telling me to 'go nuts'. Press buttons which leave me at - frames and it's opponent's turn, or just do 50/50 when the disk is up and hope they guess wrong?
D4, B2, or whatever you want because with the right disk at the right time the disk will hit almost tight after your move
 

Tweedy

Noob
YoloRoll gets so defensive about Warrior lol.

Imo Warrior is worse now.

Before, at least your armor launched them and you could stay on top and maul. Now, he gets zoned even harder, and they can just tech roll away after you land his EX dread slam.

Predator is in the same place as Erron Black imo. The main variation got stronger, while the other two got dicked heavily. Hunter is so ugly rn. Can't wake up, his htbs don't break many armors anymore, etc.
 

Temetias

"MKX kid"
So, I think I found something. Don't know if this is already known but warrior can use his plus on block armor as a launcher if he has a disc set up. This sounds cool but when you think about it, setting up the disc usually happens on hkd. And why would you want to meaty with armor?

In theory you could try to beat very fast unarmored wake-ups with it, but if your meaties are already on point that is kinda overkill. I've found it works best vs ice klone since Sub players tend to use it as a parry sometimes. Here's some early testing of the idea.

Other way I was thinking to use it was to blow up counterpokes. This is mainly a gimmick but can still work sometimes, at least I've landed it on online randoms so that's something. Basically the idea is to end a plus-string with a disc and hoping to catch an opponent late with their counterpoke. Warrior is quite fast paced so this tends to catch people off guard it seems. I used a slow reversal ai as an example to kinda make it as if a human opponent was counterpoking late.

Go ahead and try find something cool with this. It's quite close to the "plus on block armored launcher" dream lol.

Sorry for typos and stuff, written with a smartphone.

Edit: Lol just noticed this was actually mentioned here in the thread. Forum scrub of the day right here! Oh well, atleast there's now videos of this tech.
 
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