Cage's 2 1 F4...

[lmaokakes]

In all the videos I've watched of good cage players, I never ever see them do the 2 1 F4 combo (the string that ends in a low kick instead of the overhead launcher). Is there a reason why? I do this with cage alot whenever I know they're going to block the first 2 hits, and sometimes people will fall for this multiple times in a row because they think "this could be the one where he overheads me instead!"

In my opinion it's a good mixup, but I'm by no means a pro so is there a reason why nobody uses this combo*or mixups better than this?

 

[FatalTragedy]

I'm no pro either but I don't go further than the initial 21 unless I know it's safe. It seems like you're at a massive disadvantage when the f+2 is blocked but constant 21 strings seem safe. If I only finish the string after a hit confirm I don't need the mixup. Better for him to be on the offense anyway instead of giving the opponent a chance to wake up.

 

[Dizzy]

Isnt it 2,1,B+4 not F+4?

Either way I use it sparingly. I don't think i've ever got punished for using it but it looks like its unsafe. Might be good to use it to condition the opponent early to block low when they see 2,1 so you can hit them with 2,1,f+2 later in the match.

This reminds me that I need to find someone to test if it is unsafe or not...damn this training mode

 

[Sao87]

In all the videos I've watched of good cage players, I never ever see them do the 2 1 F4 combo (the string that ends in a low kick instead of the overhead launcher). Is there a reason why? I do this with cage alot whenever I know they're going to block the first 2 hits, and sometimes people will fall for this multiple times in a row because they think "this could be the one where he overheads me instead!"

In my opinion it's a good mixup, but I'm by no means a pro so is there a reason why nobody uses this combo*or mixups better than this?

I would consider myself a good cage player and I use it as a setup sometimes. I've noticed that people typically react with offense or a jump so I like to stick out the back 3 to launch people (after the 2,1,b4 string) into a "1,1 dash 1,1 dash 4,4 ball breaker". I rarely use this setup so that it works when I need it.

 

[Sao87]

Isnt it 2,1,B+4 not F+4?

Either way I use it sparingly. I don't think i've ever got punished for using it but it looks like its unsafe. Might be good to use it to condition the opponent early to block low when they see 2,1 so you can hit them with 2,1,f+2 later in the match.

This reminds me that I need to find someone to test if it is unsafe or not...damn this training mode

Both strings are safe on block.

 

[Mikemetroid]

Both strings are safe on block.

b+4 keeps em closer.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Both strings are safe on block.

B+4 is punishable by uppercut if blocked

 

[NariTuba]

If I only finish the string after a hit confirm I don't need the mixup. Better for him to be on the offense anyway instead of giving the opponent a chance to wake up.

I believe this is correct, the reason is that chipping like a madman until hit-confirming seems like the way to go. Seems to me that 2,1,B4 will hit that low if blocked standing but will cost you the advantage (frame data?)

If instead of hitting that low you continue pressure you will get the damage equivalent with chipping almost immediately, and will continue having advantage.

Cage is about asfixiating your opponent with his amazing frame traps. No sense in trading these for a low that leaves you neutral with no significant damage gain.

 

[evansgambit]

Hmmmm, from memory, it appears that you have enough time to dash in and pressure them on hit of the combo: 2, 1, B+4. Cause they stagger quite a bit. Not sure about safe jump though. I could be wrong here.

We need frame advantage data on this move. Can anyone test for sure, if it is unsafe. (Sorry have no TV yet in my new place, just the ps3). Because this string 2, 1, B+4 combined with 2, 1, F+2, gives Cage a true 50:50. They have to guess, and not react.

Being such a powerful mixup, if they block a) low or b) high - I'd imagine that the B+4 ender is unsafe, otherwise it would be overpowered. And we would see it used very commonly.

But if the frame disadvantage is not so bad on block, that you could only get uppercutted or fast specialled. It could be viable in certain matchups, as you get more pressure/chip on a successful hit, and improve your odds of landing the F+2 overhead launcher, which mathematically compensates you. I'll figure out the maths later on.

 

[PunisherAlive]

his F32 Nutpunch string is better, you can keep repeating it and you keep the oppenent standing so he can't do any wake-up attacks.

 

[Asodimazze]

In all the videos I've watched of good cage players, I never ever see them do the 2 1 F4 combo (the string that ends in a low kick instead of the overhead launcher). Is there a reason why? I do this with cage alot whenever I know they're going to block the first 2 hits, and sometimes people will fall for this multiple times in a row because they think "this could be the one where he overheads me instead!"

In my opinion it's a good mixup, but I'm by no means a pro so is there a reason why nobody uses this combo*or mixups better than this?

The problem is that when you use 21b4 you lose frame advantage.
You should use this very rarely imho.

 

[evansgambit]

his F32 Nutpunch string is better, you can keep repeating it and you keep the oppenent standing so he can't do any wake-up attacks.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but since when does 2, 1, B+4 give a knock down? I thought it always gave at least a slight stagger state on hit?

The problem is that when you use 21b4 you lose frame advantage.
You should use this very rarely imho.

Asodimazze, are you referring to on hit or on block of this string? Because, I don't think your at disadvantage on hit, maybe at least neutral, but I could be wrong. Haven't done it for a long time, so I can't really remember.

 

[Asodimazze]

Asodimazze, are you referring to on hit or on block of this string? Because, I don't think your at disadvantage on hit, maybe at least neutral, but I could be wrong. Haven't done it for a long time, so I can't really remember.

You are right, on hit you are neutral.
You are at disadvantage if the opponent blocks.