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Match-up Discussion Breaking Wands: vs Zantanna

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Ok so looking at her tools, what do you guys take from it? Me personally, I look at her and I think it could be easy for us. As always, I have the blind optimism, but lets look into it in another way.

1. All of her non-MB projectiles are single-hit.
2. She can't block during "Smoke and Mirrors"
3. She can't block or jump in wand stance
4. Her anti-air abilities are meh, her main means of getting around opponent's offence is said "S and M"
5. Her wake-up teleport looks very similar to Ares in that it looks like its based on opponent location rather than a fixed distance, can possibly be Aug'd in a similar way.
6. From what I saw, her teleport has a bit of recovery to it when in the air, so d.2 should catch her.
7. We don't have to care about any of her gimmicks because of both armor and a very wide attacking reach (I did some distance testing, we can pretty much body press the entire length of S&M)
8. Her kicks are the only possible problem, but not as bad as the Batwheel since it doesn't look to have too much air reach.
9. Her teleport might avoid a full-screen charge, but honestly you shouldn't be using that anyways.
10. Her projectile damage is, for the most part, low. That means when trading armor for damage, we will usually come out at least 10% or so ahead in terms of raw damage.

We will have official testing tomorrow to see if the MU truly is in our favour but this is a nice list of things to test on and see. Anything else you guys notice, feel free to post it here. From now on, for every new character release I'll be posting a new topic specifically for tools against that character so it can be tested extensively before we go about flaunting numbers.
 

EMPRESS_SunFire

Regina George of discord
I will be using Zatanna... I imagine this match up as a pronlem for her... Anything with good air mobility, armor or air dash will be a problem :) Specially on that magic stance (that i will never use)
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Ok so she can block during wand stance however it removes said stance. Our moves do indeed reach from one side of her S&M to the other. Her wake-up tele is odd to time however it is indeed able to be Aug'd, so bonus.
Her jump is kinda floaty, and she has some weird tech I'm looking into atm, but all in all its definitely in our favor from this first look.
She can't zone us out, she can't get away, and she can't fight us when we are in.
 
I won't be able to play her until tonight. How about her backdash/teleport/general mobility? Can she play the whiff punish game a la Black Adam?
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
I won't be able to play her until tonight. How about her backdash/teleport/general mobility? Can she play the whiff punish game a la Black Adam?
Forward dash isn't too bad. Teleport can be Aug'd for everything barring running and it has 23 recovery frames so pretty free. Backdash is pretty awful, not nightwing awful but like Cyborg/Lex awful. Her reach is pretty small too.
 

Uber

Noob
Forward dash isn't too bad. Teleport can be Aug'd for everything barring running and it has 23 recovery frames so pretty free. Backdash is pretty awful, not nightwing awful but like Cyborg/Lex awful. Her reach is pretty small too.
What does "Aug'd" mean?

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Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
What does "Aug'd" mean?

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The "Aug Tech" is an old tech discovered by the member Big_Aug and developed by the Bane character council. Primarily an anti-Ares tech, it uses motion based attacks (b.1 and b.2, for example) to displace teleports used with reference to the opponent's location instead of a set distance. For some odd reason, the computer teleports infront of the character facing the other way instead of behind them because the area that was "behind them" has changed and the AI auto-corrects itself by leaving the teleporter where they were. It prevents Zatanna's teleport usage as well for every teleport barring the teleport away, as well by the same reason. Bane's attacks are the best for this because of his large character model and dynamic movements, most of his attacks actually have his hitbox clashing with where the opponent would be teleporting, further ensuring the tech's success because the space behind him is not only "moving" but "occupied" as well. Other character can also use this tech, such as Shazam (using b.2), Catwoman (using b.3), and a good amount of other characters. The timing is a little strict and varies from character to character, but when the opponent is in an oki situation those timings are easier to manage.

tl;dr - Due to a character having a moving hitbox, the computer can't place them "behind" said character because that specific area is changing, so it forces the teleporting character to instead remain in front and facing away. Mainly an anti-Ares tech, it also works on all of Zatanna's teleports except for the away teleport. Bane has the easiest time because of his dynamic movements, but most characters can do this tech.
 

Uber

Noob
I see. Thats pretty interesting. I gotta try that B2 trick with Shazam, i wonder if it reaches back tele. I usually just jump straight up and drop down with J2's 2-sided hitbox when i think they'll teleport.

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Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
I see. Thats pretty interesting. I gotta try that B2 trick with Shazam, i wonder if it reaches back tele. I usually just jump straight up and drop down with J2's 2-sided hitbox when i think they'll teleport.

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Figure that timing, "you'll see the magic".
 
I don't think Bane wins this matchup.

She can safely escape pressure on wakeup with ex teleport.
She can also teleport during her wand stance.

The safe way I go into wand stance is end a combo in ex puppet, or catch them with ex puppet master, throw and ex fireball, and begin to zone.


Level 3 Venom is the only way to get in, and her lightning cage has armor and has priority and keeps her in stance.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
I don't think Bane wins this matchup.

She can safely escape pressure on wakeup with ex teleport.
She can also teleport during her wand stance.

The safe way I go into wand stance is end a combo in ex puppet, or catch them with ex puppet master, throw and ex fireball, and begin to zone.


Level 3 Venom is the only way to get in, and her lightning cage has armor and has priority and keeps her in stance.
She can only teleport away, and she has to burn meter to make it safe.
Although true, her only chance of doing so would be when we are doing a full-screen charge. After one dash, any charge we throw mid-projectile can't be ported away from.


You do know level 3 venom breaks armor, right?
 
She can only teleport away, and she has to burn meter to make it safe.
Although true, her only chance of doing so would be when we are doing a full-screen charge. After one dash, any charge we throw mid-projectile can't be ported away from.


You do know level 3 venom breaks armor, right?
Yeah but for some reason it doesn't vs her lightning.