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Breaker system in MK10

kabelfritz

Master
mk 9 System was prettx perfect, 3 bars, 1=special, 2=breaker, 3=xray

id just let meter build differently, like doing damage builds meter as well as blocking. so building meter is actually a reward for doing something good and not for taking damage/hitting on block
 

RM_NINfan101

Nine Inch Nails fan from Metro Detroit, Michigan
There are a few routes in which the meter system, and breakers, could be potentially changed in a way that makes MK still feel like MK.

1. Breakers go the way of bursts in Anime fighting games, where breakers are available from the start and can be used to break combos but then recharge over time. (On another note, what if it went the route of Overdrives in ChronoPhantasma and you can trade your breaker for an overdrive mode ala Aggression from MK:Trilogy? Would need some tinkering but...)

2. They are (EX, Super/X-Ray and breaker) the same meter, but the meter fills slower. This way, meter usage feels more impacting. I also believe, that meter should NOT be gained by whiffing/cancelling into any thing. So if you do a Nomad Dash cancel? No extra meter because you're cancelling it to make it safe. Special moves should also be toned down in terms of meter gain, as in continuing to toss Ice Balls with Sub-Zero should get you a full stick of butter after 45 minutes of turtling.

3. Take Cyrax/Kabal out of the game. :DOGE

(Seriously though, there is a way to MAKE Cyrax work, and that's to limit how and when he can drop bombs. It may nerf the character alot, but he shouldn't get free resets either just because he has an OTG tool.)
 

Barrogh

Meta saltmine
I want breaker not to compete for meter with other stuff to the point said stuff is never used because everyone is saving for breaker. Can get even worse when some characters rely on metered moves much more than others, that's a good recipe for a headache.
 

PunkMafia83

PSN: YaRnToNpUnKMAFIA
This is funny. Its not the meter that needs questioning in Mk. Its the fact that nearly everything is broken.go play injustice. Stop talking about mk10. Have fun.
 
mk9 breaker is fine, they don't really have to change the way they build meter either. Just make it more attractive to use meter for x rays and ex moves and the game will have more depth and variety too.
 
a seperate meter for breaker is not a good idea. The point is if you give ex moves and xrays a reason to use over breaker, players then will need to manage their meter better. If you give breaker a seperate meter, playes don't have to really manage their meter because the game does it for them.
 

Barrogh

Meta saltmine
a seperate meter for breaker is not a good idea. The point is if you give ex moves and xrays a reason to use over breaker, players then will need to manage their meter better. If you give breaker a seperate meter, playes don't have to really manage their meter because the game does it for them.
I agree and it actually was pronounced in this very thread already, that just introducing "breaker only" gauge is nothing more than extending health bar.

However, there are more ways to balance out interaction than to make separate bars. Limiting breakers, making their cost variable (as it was in IGAU, combined; just limiting breakers without other consideration is also a bad idea btw since it's the same issue as with separate gauge for nothing but breakers) etc. should work.

Characters may also have different relations with gaining and spending meter, but again, it may get in your way when you design character with great super gauge generation and a lot of options (and neccessity maybe) to spend said meter, and it turns out to be just breaker-spamming mofo.
It doesn't mean it can't be balanced (ex.: spam breakers all you want, but you won't be opening people up without ex-moves because of properties on your normals/regular specials), but it's another potential issue nevertheless.
 
I agree and it actually was pronounced in this very thread already, that just introducing "breaker only" gauge is nothing more than extending health bar.

However, there are more ways to balance out interaction than to make separate bars. Limiting breakers, making their cost variable (as it was in IGAU, combined; just limiting breakers without other consideration is also a bad idea btw since it's the same issue as with separate gauge for nothing but breakers) etc. should work.

Characters may also have different relations with gaining and spending meter, but again, it may get in your way when you design character with great super gauge generation and a lot of options (and neccessity maybe) to spend said meter, and it turns out to be just breaker-spamming mofo.
It doesn't mean it can't be balanced (ex.: spam breakers all you want, but you won't be opening people up without ex-moves because of properties on your normals/regular specials), but it's another potential issue nevertheless.
The thing is only small changes need to be made, otherwise mk10 might run into new problems again. I really want mk10 to be a game that can last as long as sf4, that might be impossible but we need to surpass the 2,5 years we had with mk9.
 

Barrogh

Meta saltmine
This is funny. Its not the meter that needs questioning in Mk. Its the fact that nearly everything is broken.go play injustice. Stop talking about mk10. Have fun.
Are you implying that new game will be broken simply because there's "MK" in the title, disregarding things like MK10 being entirely new game or that it is presumably being made by the same people who did IGAU or something else? :)

The thing is only small changes need to be made, otherwise mk10 might run into new problems again. I really want mk10 to be a game that can last as long as sf4, that might be impossible but we need to surpass the 2,5 years we had with mk9.
Well, something tells me that MK10 probably won't be MK9 Ultimate though.
But let's assume that it's an option. In any case there will be new problems because even if you only make small changes when it comes to basic mech, there's still the majority of roster to remake, there are still concepts to be fixed, there are tools to be added. There will be a lot to patch anyways. Could as well reserve options to tweak basic mech.
 
Are you implying that new game will be broken simply because there's "MK" in the title, disregarding things like MK10 being entirely new game or that it is presumably being made by the same people who did IGAU or something else? :)


Well, something tells me that MK10 probably won't be MK9 Ultimate though.
But let's assume that it's an option. In any case there will be new problems because even if you only make small changes when it comes to basic mech, there's still the majority of roster to remake, there are still concepts to be fixed, there are tools to be added. There will be a lot to patch anyways. Could as well reserve options to tweak basic mech.
yeah, NRS has always been known as ''innovative''. Honestly I don't want them to remake the roster at all, just add a few characters and make characters like goro, motaro, shao khan playable and add shinnok and I'm good.
 

PunkMafia83

PSN: YaRnToNpUnKMAFIA
Are you implying that new game will be broken simply because there's "MK" in the title, disregarding things like MK10 being entirely new game or that it is presumably being made by the same people who did IGAU or something else? :)


Well, something tells me that MK10 probably won't be MK9 Ultimate though.
But let's assume that it's an option. In any case there will be new problems because even if you only make small changes when it comes to basic mech, there's still the majority of roster to remake, there are still concepts to be fixed, there are tools to be added. There will be a lot to patch anyways. Could as well reserve options to tweak basic mech.
I am implying that their has never been a properly balanced Mk game. And that the meter game should not be a focus point. So yeah. I am.
 

TaffyMeat

Infinite Meter Kombos
yeah, NRS has always been known as ''innovative''. Honestly I don't want them to remake the roster at all, just add a few characters and make characters like goro, motaro, shao khan playable and add shinnok and I'm good.
Remember that they killed off Motaro in MK9 so that they wont have the same animation issue with his 4 legs as in the original timeline. (I'm guessing)
 

STB Sgt Reed

Online Warrior
Problem is when you have characters like cyrax... you need your multiple breakers. lol

I hope it's at least similar to MK9 as I was all about saving meter for breakers and that effs me on injustice b/c there's no fucking reason to save meter at all... there's no tom brady supers or breakers when you need them. lol
 

TomlulsBrady

Kombatant
The thing is only small changes need to be made, otherwise mk10 might run into new problems again. I really want mk10 to be a game that can last as long as sf4, that might be impossible but we need to surpass the 2,5 years we had with mk9.
>Lel if you don't think paulo and friends are not gonna completely scrap mk9 system in favor of a new design that is completely different from everyone expectations.

I agree with majority of everything you say, but if mk10 is announced it won't play like mk9.
 

Onilordasmodeus

My GT: UncappedWheel82
If MK10's breaker system is going to be just an iteration on the MK9 breaker system, using the old model would be fine. Overall they really just need to tweak meter gain values and that is it.

That being said, there is much that can be improved on in the meter usage department such as an "alpha-counter"/"shadow counter" type move, block button parries, universal armor moves, and/or push-blocks (I can take/leave PBs overall for MK10 but it's an option). Buffing X-rays would be cool as well, as using a raw X-ray should take 40-50% easy for every character. There should be greater risk reward for going all in with them.

On the other hand, and I was talking about this in some other thread, another route they could take is divorcing the breakers from the traditional meter bar all together. If breakers/push-blocks/"alpha-counters" (all/any universal defensive moves) were all tied to a universal block/guard gauge, that would take breakers and level the playing field across the board for all characters. Traditional meter gain can be the same (performing/whiffing special moves to gain meter, getting your opponent to block your attacks, etc.), but the block gauge would be one that starts low and fills over time automatically. Blocking attacks could decrease the meter, parries would decrease meter but negate block stun, and taking a hit could gain meter or have no effect at all (all this would depends on balance needs).

If a system like this were in place, in my mind at least this would give no distinct advantage to any specific character in terms of defensive options, but only reward the player who uses their resources the smartest. It would also be something new and fresh, and could also be pretty fun!
 

G4S Claude VonStroke

@MK_ClaudeVS on twitter
MK9 has the best meter system imo. Just a few characters needed tweaking how fast they built meter like Kabal. The system itself is great. And also fuck pushblock. That's a get out of jail free card. If you want out of a rush down characters pressure then learn the options, frame data and get out of it. Some characters have no zoning and are based on rush down. So lets say they are playing against kenshi or kabal and finally get it, they immediately get push blocked... GG's that's fair.
 

davidovitch

In Europe!
The MK9 breaker system is fine- the problem is the meter system causes breakers to overshadow EX moves in a very unfortunate way.

1 breaker only costs the meter equivalent to 2 EX moves. For many characters who don't have amazing EX moves, its not worth it to spend any meter on them at all given 1 breaker can save you from 40% damage.

They might need to do something like move to Injustice's 4 bar system, and have a breaker cost 3 bars, x-ray cost 4, and EX moves cost 1
I love the 3-part super bar in MK9. The problem you describe I would solve by making all the EX versions of moves useful and worth the bar at least sometimes.

And as stated by others the meter building should be upgraded a little so that a barrage of frame traps or non-stop zoning don't build so much meter. The balance should be such that you'd usually be able to breaker once per round, unless you went into the round with lots of meter already. Also the best combos should not do (much) more then 50% damage.

Breakers themselves I would put a way to anticipate and counter them, like KI's counter-breakers but perhaps at the cost of one or two bars as well as potentially losing combo damage if the opponent decided not to break. As long as they are not guaranteed or inescapable, anti-breaker setups like Cyrax has in MK9 can also be a cool addition to the combos (for all the characters).

that's my opinion. I'm hype for mk10!
 

STB Sgt Reed

Online Warrior
(Seriously though, there is a way to MAKE Cyrax work, and that's to limit how and when he can drop bombs. It may nerf the character alot, but he shouldn't get free resets either just because he has an OTG tool.)
What if the second net just dropped them on the ground instead of standing them up in front of Cyrax?
 

Solid

The Longbow Hunter.
Man I hope they fix meter building. I remember facing my first top player and first Kabal in tournament. It was PL at VXG. The 1 or 2 times I touched him he had breaker in store. It was a bad beating.
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
I want two meters

the normal MK one... that is used for breakers and EX moves

I want another one that builds up based on damage taken for supers. The damage delt by the super is based on how much you have stored. IE... you can use the super at any point after you take damage... but it scales based on the percentage you have. Example: the "super" does 45% damage when the super meter is full. If you activate it when the meter is only 10% full then you only deal out 4.5% damage.

That to me would give a balance to a comeback factor, hype ish type move as well as still having to manage meter between doing a breaker and extending combo's further with EX juggles.