Strategy - Blood God Blood God feels extremely redundant

[RYX]

Really, what's the point of using it? Outside of high, extremely conditional damage, it doesn't offer anything unique besides the damage reduction on his Obsidian Totem, which is.. kind of underwhelming. My argument;

- His up-close game in Blood God is honestly pretty lacking. War God is already known for its huge range advantage and mix-up game, while Sun God is probably going to be used vs people who want to rush him down thanks to EX Sun God Choke having armor. Add on the fact that SG has incredibly strong tick throws and Blood God seems worse by comparison.

- Taking advantage of Blood God's damage requires a lot of set-up, and he really doesn't have strong means to actually set them up. Almost every safe way to end with a totem usually leaves the opponent full screen (which is not where you want them unless you're putting out Obsidian and turtling) and his normals aren't good enough in the neutral game to fill that gap.

- His totems don't seem to stand out too much on their own as far as being interesting or strong enough to make you play Blood God. Crystal Totem is a damage buff, of which he has one on all variations. Not to say that this is a bad thing; high damage should be Blood God's specialty, and being able to combo into it is a great boon to its function, but having it on top of Mace Parry and Blood Sacrifice feels a little repetitive.

- Blood Totem is a better/worse version of Sun God's heal. What it does is drain the opponent's meter on hit as well as restore a % of damage you've dealt when it expires. I'm not too sure but I'm pretty sure the Totem breaks if you get hit while it's up, denying you the chance to heal. It's worse because Sun God only requires that you have at least one stack of his throw, and while it costs meter, I'd argue Sun God is better off when combined with his other options. Both draw a parallel in that you sacrifice immediate or future damage for a chance to lame out your opponent or make a comeback, but Sun God's is more reliable, whereas Blood God has a potential to heal for massive chunks.

- I'll be honest, I don't think Obsidian Totem is ever going to be useful enough to warrant using over the other two. At best, I'll give it some credit for reducing damage that you eat while trying to get in on heavy projectile users, maybe running away with a life lead, but I think it should grant him an armor buff instead. Probably an overkill buff but I'd rather have Obsidian Totem grant him a hit of armor similar to one of Quan Chi's buffs. It makes him a powerful threat while it's on the screen since now this variation has an answer to rushdown and zoning, while also keeping him from having an equal mix-up game on par with the other two.

Right now I think Blood God is his worst variation, and this could change depending on how his set-ups get discovered and altered to suit him better. But right now, he's a little too unreliable in too many areas for my tastes.

 

[regulas]

In theory the big use of obsidian would be to activate Blood offering, as well as possibly some use versus zoners.

In general I don't find the command throw from sun to be that great, such that I actually consider Blood with it's crystal totem stronger then sun.

However I do completely agree that both are vastly and horrendously sub-par compared to War god.

 

[RYX]

In theory the big use of obsidian would be to activate Blood offering, as well as possibly some use versus zoners.

In general I don't find the command throw from sun to be that great, such that I actually consider Blood with it's crystal totem stronger then sun.

However I do completely agree that both are vastly and horrendously sub-par compared to War god.

I value Sun God because he has a reliable way to open you up, while Blood God doesn't. Even if Sun God doesn't do enough with a raw throw (and frankly it's horse shot that you need to build up for the highest damage only to lose all form of pressure) I feel more comfortable using it at the moment

 

[KeyserSoze]

In theory the big use of obsidian would be to activate Blood offering, as well as possibly some use versus zoners.

In general I don't find the command throw from sun to be that great, such that I actually consider Blood with it's crystal totem stronger then sun.

However I do completely agree that both are vastly and horrendously sub-par compared to War god.

I basically agree with this. I believe Sun God is very likely his least viable variation because his command grab just isn't anything to write home about. It doesn't have particularly good range and doesn't do the raw damage that it should. I don't believe one would ever fear a leveled-up Sun God the way one would have to fear the potentially absurd damage output of a competent Blood God. Essentially, I think the overall potential of the three totems outweighs the overall potential of the command grab and sun scorch specials.

Personally, I think both War God and Blood God will ultimately be competitively viable. And while War God clearly gives him the most options overall, I also think that the general perception of Blood God will improve over time as more setups are found and good players learn to utilize totems more optimally. I think War God will be the go-to option for dealing with characters who want to either rush you down or play footsies and Blood God will be more of an option for characters who want to turtle and zone. My ultimate goal is to become efficient with all three variations. I am currently focusing exclusively on War God and Blood God.

But, I agree, War God owns.

 

[regulas]

I value Sun God because he has a reliable way to open you up, while Blood God doesn't. Even if Sun God doesn't do enough with a raw throw (and frankly it's horse shot that you need to build up for the highest damage only to lose all form of pressure) I feel more comfortable using it at the moment

One thought I had is if Blood and Sun got special version of the Blood offering and God ray respectively.

Blood god offering gets armor for one hit (tatoos glow red while active like with sun god), this gives him another option to open people up with that's more reliable but self-damaging then normal. It also really makes obsidian useful as a totem because it could help reduce the armoured damage you took as well as the self buff. Possibly also faster at 43 frames instead of 60. I would also make blood totem ignore armoured hits (last through them) to give you a way to try and keep it up.

Sun god gets a better sunlight: Quite possibly just a lot faster like say 36 frames total. It would have to be fast enough that you can actually use regularly, it would then make for an interesting pressure/healing tool. An alternative to speed would be if it got a beam hit of some type.

 

[RYX]

One thought I had is if Blood and Sun got special version of the Blood offering and God ray respectively.

Blood god offering gets armor for one hit (tatoos glow red while active like with sun god), this gives him another option to open people up with that's more reliable but self-damaging then normal. It also really makes obsidian useful as a totem because it could help reduce the armoured damage you took as well as the self buff. Possibly also faster at 43 frames instead of 60. I would also make blood totem ignore armoured hits (last through them) to give you a way to try and keep it up.

Sun god gets a better sunlight: Quite possibly just a lot faster like say 36 frames total. It would have to be fast enough that you can actually use regularly, it would then make for an interesting pressure/healing tool. An alternative to speed would be if it got a beam hit of some type.

my personal opinion --

Sun God's EX grab should do more damage, if not the regular version as well. In addition I think it should bump you up a level ie if you haven't used it yet and you land an EX grab you go right to level 2 for spending a bar. My thought is that it has more potential than War God but less than Blood; it should be somewhere in the middle, where it's consistent, reliable, and rewarding, where War God is more consistent and Blood God is more rewarding. Maybe landing his parry immediately gives him a level of it as well? I think he needs more ways to quickly charge up; then again, if it's a problem, perhaps it should be EX parry only.

Blood God... I dunno. I feel like in order to make Blood God work, he just needs better frame data on his normals which can feel incredibly unforgiving at times. That said, I still think giving him armor in place of damage reduction (or just an EX version that grants him both) on Obsidian is a good way to make him more powerful; it could only be the one hit, or maybe it recharges after a few seconds?

I really hope I'm not subconsciously Bane-ing this character

 

[sPaB RoG]

I been trying out Blood God and it's hard to get used to, but I feel like my neutral is getting better and I'm forcing myself to approach matches differently, activating totems and advancing forward is really good man. You just gotta be ready for that whiff punish. War God is obviously the better one, but in footsie matches I feel like Blood God could be really scary.

 

[regulas]

my personal opinion --

Sun God's EX grab should do more damage, if not the regular version as well. In addition I think it should bump you up a level ie if you haven't used it yet and you land an EX grab you go right to level 2 for spending a bar. My thought is that it has more potential than War God but less than Blood; it should be somewhere in the middle, where it's consistent, reliable, and rewarding, where War God is more consistent and Blood God is more rewarding. Maybe landing his parry immediately gives him a level of it as well? I think he needs more ways to quickly charge up; then again, if it's a problem, perhaps it should be EX parry only.

Blood God... I dunno. I feel like in order to make Blood God work, he just needs better frame data on his normals which can feel incredibly unforgiving at times. That said, I still think giving him armor in place of damage reduction (or just an EX version that grants him both) on Obsidian is a good way to make him more powerful; it could only be the one hit, or maybe it recharges after a few seconds?

I really hope I'm not subconsciously Bane-ing this character

Bane always had mix-ups and tools from the get go, igau just had a very zoning heavy focus which deterred people from trying to use him.

For sun what I would rather see then dmg is speed. One of the other biggest problems his cgrab has is that it's just outright slow on start-up... compared to Goro who has solid dmg and 7 frames with a whole other toolbox.

I been trying out Blood God and it's hard to get used to, but I feel like my neutral is getting better and I'm forcing myself to approach matches differently, activating totems and advancing forward is really good man. You just gotta be ready for that whiff punish. War God is obviously the better one, but in footsie matches I feel like Blood God could be really scary.

The thing is that War god also has all the same normals, only for him they are also all compltly safe and compltly mix-ups. Bloodgod is fine until you realise that a lot of your good strings can all be punished un block by fast characters. Right now these weakness arn't as aprent as people still learn the matchups but he will suffer more and more

 

[RYX]

Bane always had mix-ups and tools from the get go, igau just had a very zoning heavy focus which deterred people from trying to use him.

For sun what I would rather see then dmg is speed. One of the other biggest problems his cgrab has is that it's just outright slow on start-up... compared to Goro who has solid dmg and 7 frames with a whole other toolbox.



The thing is that War god also has all the same normals, only for him they are also all compltly safe and compltly mix-ups. Bloodgod is fine until you realise that a lot of your good strings can all be punished un block by fast characters. Right now these weakness arn't as aprent as people still learn the matchups but he will suffer more and more

bane was seriously weak at the beginning, but he got buffed really hard and he might've ended up a little too good because of it.

His c.grab isn't that slow, is it? I'm pretty sure it's faster than Torr's, at least.

On that note, I don't know if I want it getting faster; if it's too quick on start-up, he might not be able to utilize his tick throws, which right now are lackluster because of his low damage and his loss of position at level 3 (unless you're tossing them in the corner). I think it could stand to have a better horizontal hitbox, but that might be asking for too much.

I think War God just covers up his weaknesses way too well for you to want to pick up either of the other variants; they don't really save you from his crippling flaws of bad frames and just sorta... accentuate strengths he already has. WG has a really strong neutral and pressure game, especially with the option select that someone found for him, and he still functions at full capacity because he does the same damage as Blood and Sun God in normal BnBs, give or take a few %. It also doesn't require you to ramp up to get full damage (Sun God) or put something on the screen (Blood) to get that damage

i feel like Sun and Blood god should trade varying levels of safety and the range of War God for higher damage and bigger close-up threats (i.e armor on Obsidian, and I'm sorry for bringing this up but I just really love the idea). Maybe he just needs better frame data in non-War God

 

[regulas]

bane was seriously weak at the beginning, but he got buffed really hard and he might've ended up a little too good because of it.

His c.grab isn't that slow, is it? I'm pretty sure it's faster than Torr's, at least.

On that note, I don't know if I want it getting faster; if it's too quick on start-up, he might not be able to utilize his tick throws, which right now are lackluster because of his low damage and his loss of position at level 3 (unless you're tossing them in the corner). I think it could stand to have a better horizontal hitbox, but that might be asking for too much.

I think War God just covers up his weaknesses way too well for you to want to pick up either of the other variants; they don't really save you from his crippling flaws of bad frames and just sorta... accentuate strengths he already has. WG has a really strong neutral and pressure game, especially with the option select that someone found for him, and he still functions at full capacity because he does the same damage as Blood and Sun God in normal BnBs, give or take a few %. It also doesn't require you to ramp up to get full damage (Sun God) or put something on the screen (Blood) to get that damage

i feel like Sun and Blood god should trade varying levels of safety and the range of War God for higher damage and bigger close-up threats (i.e armor on Obsidian, and I'm sorry for bringing this up but I just really love the idea). Maybe he just needs better frame data in non-War God

Don't want to get into it too much but most of banes buffs didn't actually do much, he always had all his tools from the getgo, he was just unpopular.

Sun and blood have no tools is there problem. anyway, Ferra grab is slow but it is like twice the reach of ours plus he has tons of tools besides that, wheres ours in theory should be the build focus.

And blood just has no tools at all, unsafe, no way to open people up other then parry.

 

[RYX]

Don't want to get into it too much but most of banes buffs didn't actually do much, he always had all his tools from the getgo, he was just unpopular.

Sun and blood have no tools is there problem. anyway, Ferra grab is slow but it is like twice the reach of ours plus he has tons of tools besides that, wheres ours in theory should be the build focus.

And blood just has no tools at all, unsafe, no way to open people up other then parry.

the venom debuff reduction/lessened time and the improved dash were massively helpful mein freund

That is the issue, yes; I think improved frame data in the form of blockstrings or start-ups would help that, as well as something more usable than his current sun disc. 56 frames of start up.. really?

armor on his blood god would make it more successful at a counter-oriented game style; he becomes more of a wall that can punch through gaps in your strings, combining that with parry would make him really good against people with multiple-hitting moves as well. then there's the obvious of forcing most people to EX projectiles so they can get more than one out to try and stop him from running into them and i think it'd be pretty cool. the main issue is that having a totem like that without changing the other 2 could make it good enough that it'd rarely warrant using blood or crystal

 

[KeyserSoze]

Don't want to get into it too much but most of banes buffs didn't actually do much, he always had all his tools from the getgo, he was just unpopular.

Sun and blood have no tools is there problem. anyway, Ferra grab is slow but it is like twice the reach of ours plus he has tons of tools besides that, wheres ours in theory should be the build focus.

And blood just has no tools at all, unsafe, no way to open people up other then parry.

1) Bane was complete trash before the dash buff. He was the worst character in the game on launch. The dash buff is what first made him decent. .

2) I think Blood God will ultimately be a whiff punishing, setup heavy character that will be extremely scary in certain match-ups (probably against footsie based characters and zoners)

 

[KeyserSoze]

Bloodgod is fine until you realise that a lot of your good strings can all be punished un block by fast characters. Right now these weakness arn't as aprent as people still learn the matchups but he will suffer more and more

Yes, but just as our opponents will better learn to punish Blood God's strings, Blood God players will also become more adept at properly setting up totems and using parry, leading to ridiculous damage buffs and even more control over the state of their life-bars relative to that of their opponents.

 

[Hellbringer]

Blood god is powerfull offline, but online trying to hit the f2b1~db1, d1 ex df1 feels like impossible with the delay.

 

[sPaB RoG]

use F12 to pressure, its -9 but the pushback is virtually safe and most strings that are fast start high and cant reach

 

[KeyserSoze]

use F12 to pressure, its -9 but the pushback is virtually safe and most strings that are fast start high and cant reach

Yep, works great. Very few characters can punish it consistently. Also, on hit, it allows you to throw out the totem of your choice.

 

[sPaB RoG]

Yep, works great. Very few characters can punish it consistently. Also, on hit, it allows you to throw out the totem of your choice.

you get free meaty sun disc, and at that range your really Positive frame ways, you can even set up god ray depending on the matchup.

 

[Apex Kano]

I just started using Kotal today and tried his War God. Let me tell you..if he don't show up in Evo15 I'll be pissed. War God is so boss!

 

[regulas]

I just started using Kotal today and tried his War God. Let me tell you..if he don't show up in Evo15 I'll be pissed. War God is so boss!

Rico Suave is maining Kotal War god so we should see some competative play so long as he is in any way viable.

 

[KeyserSoze]

I have been playing Blood God a lot more in the past few days and have been having some success pressuring with B32 and 212 and cancelling normals/strings like F3, B1, F1, B14, and 21 into Ex-Sun Disc. Also, the Obsidian Totem is being grossly underrated on this message board, IMO. You take 34% less damage with it activated (The only exception to this is that it only seems to work on the first hit of X-Ray damage). That is pretty boss, particularly in light of the fact that Kotal already kills the rest of the cast in damage output to begin with.

 

[regulas]

I have been playing Blood God a lot more in the past few days and have been having some success pressuring with B32 and 212 and cancelling normals/strings like F3, B1, F1, B14, and 21 into Ex-Sun Disc. Also, the Obsidian Totem is being grossly underrated on this message board, IMO. You take 34% less damage with it activated (The only exception to this is that it only seems to work on the first hit of X-Ray damage). That is pretty boss, particularly in light of the fact that Kotal already kills the rest of the cast in damage output to begin with.

The issue with the reduction is that you are limited in how much you can take advantage, blood offering is... okish, but only that, if we had an armor move or something it could be much better. I would find it most useful as is if your opponent is now below a certain HP, so you don't need the bonus dmg so much as just more chances to land your own shots, however if they are above a certain amount I would rather get them down another 10-15% more from my combo , then to save the same from myself.

I've rounded it to 212, 114, b32, 4 and f4, as being the best normals for Blood god, these are what you should use for your regular strings, most of these are very safe footsie strings 212 of note is 0 on block (so +1) with a very good distance set and if it connects gives you enough time for a totem safely enough and the first hit is sort of a frame trap (since you lunge right after), whereas 114 is what you want to use if your too close since it can be cancelled into combos or the like while also being 0 on block.

A number of other normals and strings have some use but it's more situational. f3 and b2 for low overhead starters and b1/f1 for quick punishes.
Part of the reason not to use the semi safe strings is preventing pressure, since 212 for example leaves you at effectively +1 and at considerable distance putting them in your ideal range, in contrast to say f1b2 that leaves you much closer and so negative they can start any mix-up they please without worry. That seems more the essence of footsies keeping them just outside the range they can pressure safely from.

 

[KeyserSoze]

The issue with the reduction is that you are limited in how much you can take advantage, blood offering is... okish, but only that, if we had an armor move or something it could be much better. I would find it most useful as is if your opponent is now below a certain HP, so you don't need the bonus dmg so much as just more chances to land your own shots, however if they are above a certain amount I would rather get them down another 10-15% more from my combo , then to save the same from myself.

I've rounded it to 212, 114, b32, 4 and f4, as being the best normals for Blood god, these are what you should use for your regular strings, most of these are very safe footsie strings 212 of note is 0 on block (so +1) with a very good distance set and if it connects gives you enough time for a totem safely enough and the first hit is sort of a frame trap (since you lunge right after), whereas 114 is what you want to use if your too close since it can be cancelled into combos or the like while also being 0 on block.

A number of other normals and strings have some use but it's more situational. f3 and b2 for low overhead starters and b1/f1 for quick punishes.
Part of the reason not to use the semi safe strings is preventing pressure, since 212 for example leaves you at effectively +1 and at considerable distance putting them in your ideal range, in contrast to say f1b2 that leaves you much closer and so negative they can start any mix-up they please without worry. That seems more the essence of footsies keeping them just outside the range they can pressure safely from.

I agree with a lot of this. Good post. And I totally agree that a dedicated armored move would help blood god's cause inordinately more than any totem he has, but I also think being able to take 34% less damage than normal as well as being able to inflict 20-25% more damage than normal for significant portions of the match is not too shabby.

I'd also modify your brief analysis of his strings and normals by noting that both b1 and f1 have such an unusual combination of relatively quick start up and awesome reach, that they are vital parts of his footsie and/or pressure game and bring more to the table than just "quick punishes." I agree with limiting the use of unsafe/semi-safe strings like f1b2, b122, and b14 to some extant, but at the very least, normals/strings like f1, b1, and b14 can all be cancelled into ex-sundisk for either some nice damage or superb frame advantage.

 

[Crayraven]

Has anyone noticed that when blood totem is up, only 1 and 3 depletes the enemy's meter. 2 and 4 connected attacks allow the enemy meter to build like normal. At least this how it is on pc, it could be a bug. But I don't any other version to check with.

 

[KeyserSoze]

Has anyone noticed that when blood totem is up, only 1 and 3 depletes the enemy's meter. 2 and 4 connected attacks allow the enemy meter to build like normal. At least this how it is on pc, it could be a bug. But I don't any other version to check with.

I have not noticed this and I have played a ton of blood god . . . BUT, I don't use the blood totem very much in comparison to the other 2. I'm definitely going to check this out later today.

 

[D4G]

Has anyone noticed that when blood totem is up, only 1 and 3 depletes the enemy's meter. 2 and 4 connected attacks allow the enemy meter to build like normal. At least this how it is on pc, it could be a bug. But I don't any other version to check with.

Confirmed, I noticed the stolen meter was normally being replenished, Jesus Blood God sucks.

Also on PC btw/