Strategy Bird Raiden

[4x4lo8o]

Silly title aside, this is actually a useful strategy in some match ups. Some characters can blow up a whiffed superman, obviously this is for those who can't. Also not that great against characters that are trying to stay away from you. This isn't Foxy's Bird Lao that's uncounterable and has no bad match ups, or whatever bird Lao does, but it does make some match ups more manageable for Raiden.
I've found this to be really useful in the Sonya match up, for example. Against Sonya all Raiden wants to do is run away the whole match. If you space it right the jumpkick will beat all her anti airs, so you can keep doing it until she stops trying to uppercut you every time you jump in. If she blocks you end up fullscreen and she has to chase you down again. If she doesn't block she eats 16% and still ends up fullscreen. If she's blocking it every time you can take advantage of that and start throwing in jip and doing tik throws(sending her full screen again) or block strings.

I'm not sure if you can tell from the video, but if you land it at the right height electric fly will go over their head if they block but it will hit them if the jump kick lands.
It also might be hit confirmable, but I can't quite tell. You don't have to cancel the jump kick into the superman, you can do superman doing that moment while you're hanging there after the kick connects and it'll still work.
The jumpkick doesn't have to connect to do super man, so even if they crouch or jump back or avoid it somehow you can use superman to hit them or travel full screen.


I'll get a list of characters that can actually punish this soon. I think that because of the block stun from the jump kick it'll make it difficult for some characters that could normally punish a whiffed superman.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

No. Just no. Maybe if they hadn't nerfed his recovery on his air Superman, this would be an okay tactic.

 

[Qwark28]

someone trying to get the lead back from raiden and jumping is gonna have a bad time

superman below them is a good keepaway tactic

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

Brady already explained this long ago when he decided to make the final switch. No one ever picked it up. I did but I'm an online warrior so doesn't count.

 

[4x4lo8o]

No. Just no. Maybe if they hadn't nerfed his recovery on his air Superman, this would be an okay tactic.

Did you read anything I wrote? Specifically the parts where I said it wasn't any good against characters who can punish whiffed superman, but it explained how it could give a small edge against those who can't.

someone trying to get the lead back from raiden and jumping is gonna have a bad time

superman below them is a good keepaway tactic

Yeah, I definitely can't say I recommend jumping against Raiden. Superman under can be risky though. Jump kicks can beat it and it loses to divekicks.

Brady already explained this long ago when he decided to make the final switch. No one ever picked it up. I did but I'm an online warrior so doesn't count.

This isn't the same as Brady's crossover superman thing, although it is a similar idea. Just jumping and using superman the way he was showing doesn't work particularly well against Sonya because she can knock you out if with that ridiculous hitbox on her uppercut. This deals with anti airs more effectively, can deal damage, and should make the whiffed superman less punishable. I'm sure I'm not the first person ever to do this, but you can't give credit for it to Tom Brady

 

[AYSAMO]

The pain of eating uppercuts from sonya... I feel that bro. Anything that can keep you away from Sonya is good in my opinion.

 

[poofynamanama2]

I always whiff a superman after an air breaker and go for a throw, it confuses the hell out of people and funny at the same time

 

[Laos_boy]

After a hit super man I whiff another superman to get in.

 

[Chaosphere]

After a hit super man I whiff another superman to get in.

I do this too... but it can be blown up REALLY hard by many characters. The only time it works is if they don't realize what's happening. You'll see in my match against PL at final round I did this and was expecting him to try and blow it up so I just stopped and held block to try and block the spin, haha. But alas, he just stood there blocking and so did I... missing my opportunity for free pressure/throw.

 

[B W1zZ]

I sent tyrant to losers with this ground breaking tech at Devastation 2011

#PeopleForgot

 

[Skitzo]

Kabal can blow this up with a naked ND lol

I laugh when Raiden players do this to me

 

[Laos_boy]

I do this too... but it can be blown up REALLY hard by many characters. The only time it works is if they don't realize what's happening. You'll see in my match against PL at final round I did this and was expecting him to try and blow it up so I just stopped and held block to try and block the spin, haha. But alas, he just stood there blocking and so did I... missing my opportunity for free pressure/throw.

If its against a character with slow wake up I like to do ex shocker to beat there wake up

Sent from my LT28at using Tapatalk 2

 

[Chaosphere]

If its against a character with slow wake up I like to do ex shocker to beat there wake up

Sent from my LT28at using Tapatalk 2

Yeah. I also like to whiff past them on knockdown with superman in the corner to bait them into hitting a string. I teleport immediately and get a free corner combo. Feelsgoodman.jpeg

 

[THTB]

This tech was legit when Jebailey trolled up PowerUp 2011 with this lol.

 

[Chaosphere]

Yeah. I'll never use this strategy. It pretty much gives them at least a free projectile I'd think. And if they're giving me enough for a jik, then it's probably safe to say I'd be able to get a jip in which I'd rather take the pressure/combo.

 

[Error]

"Bird ____" is actually an anagram for "online tactics"

 

[4x4lo8o]

Again, I'm aware that some characters can blow this up. I made that very clear in the first post. I'm not advocating using this against those characters or using it over and over brainlessly against the characters who can't

Yeah. I'll never use this strategy. It pretty much gives them at least a free projectile I'd think. And if they're giving me enough for a jik, then it's probably safe to say I'd be able to get a jip in which I'd rather take the pressure/combo.

Depends what you mean by 'free projectile'. Yes they have time to throw out their projectile, no you don't get hit by it. It's character dependent, obviously, but Sonya's and most others you have time to duck/block/jump over. There are lot of scenarios where I'd rather be fullscreen and duck a projectile than be right next to them after a jip block string.
I also really don't understand how you're saying you'd be able to get a jip in most of the same situations. Maybe I explained myself poorly, but the whole point of the way I'm using this is that you can do it in situation when you would likely couldn't get a jip.

I mean, you were just talking about whiffing superman after a superman on hit as a legit strategy. You realize that everyone in the cast can blow that up, and all you get is spacing for pressure if they decide to block? It works entirely based on the opponent not reacting right. Which is fine because not everyone knows about it and so it works, but I actually can't use that offline here anymore because everyone in Arizona has seen it and on reaction will just stand up and full combo more often than not.
The tactic I made this thread about gives you the same thing, spacing, and is safe if used in the right situation plus it conditions the opponent to block jip's.

I sent tyrant to losers with this ground breaking tech at Devastation 2011

#PeopleForgot

I apologize for making a thread about something you used in tournament once.

Come on, dude. I didn't say that it was new or groundbreaking or claim ownership or discovery of it. I made a thread about a tactic that I've been having a bit of success with recently. You used it tournament so obviously you think it has some usefulness, why not discuss here? Where are your posts about it if credit on TYM is an issue?

"Bird ____" is actually an anagram for "online tactics"

I don't actually play online, and B Wizz posted a video of himself using this in tournament. The title was just a joke and I don't know anything about the actual viability Bird Lao on/offline, but this works fine offline. Maybe it works better online, but I wouldn't know.

 

[Roko1985]

I like it!

 

[B W1zZ]

Again, I'm aware that some characters can blow this up. I made that very clear in the first post. I'm not advocating using this against those characters or using it over and over brainlessly against the characters who can't



Depends what you mean by 'free projectile'. Yes they have time to throw out their projectile, no you don't get hit by it. It's character dependent, obviously, but Sonya's and most others you have time to duck/block/jump over. There are lot of scenarios where I'd rather be fullscreen and duck a projectile than be right next to them after a jip block string.
I also really don't understand how you're saying you'd be able to get a jip in most of the same situations. Maybe I explained myself poorly, but the whole point of the way I'm using this is that you can do it in situation when you would likely couldn't get a jip.

I mean, you were just talking about whiffing superman after a superman on hit as a legit strategy. You realize that everyone in the cast can blow that up, and all you get is spacing for pressure if they decide to block? It works entirely based on the opponent not reacting right. Which is fine because not everyone knows about it and so it works, but I actually can't use that offline here anymore because everyone in Arizona has seen it and on reaction will just stand up and full combo more often than not.
The tactic I made this thread about gives you the same thing, spacing, and is safe if used in the right situation plus it conditions the opponent to block jip's.




I apologize for making a thread about something you used in tournament once.

Come on, dude. I didn't say that it was new or groundbreaking or claim ownership or discovery of it. I made a thread about a tactic that I've been having a bit of success with recently. You used it tournament so obviously you think it has some usefulness, why not discuss here? Where are your posts about it if credit on TYM is an issue?



I don't actually play online, and B Wizz posted a video of himself using this in tournament. The title was just a joke and I don't know anything about the actual viability Bird Lao on/offline, but this works fine offline. Maybe it works better online, but I wouldn't know.

Calm down Evan I wasn't trying to bash on your thread. This is sort of a parlor trick that is generally useful when

1: Opponent attempts to D1 or stand 1 aa in anticipation of a jip
2.: Your crossing them up and they're trying to aa a jip with d1 or stand 1 etc

Those are probably the best situations to use it in imo.. Characters with fast advancing specials can punish it pretty easily though but thats a matter of your opponents reaction time/character. Smoke could smoke bomb, kabal dash, jax dash punch, reptile dash, or say kung lao who could just tele in your face while your recovering.

 

[Qwark28]

Did you read anything I wrote? Specifically the parts where I said it wasn't any good against characters who can punish whiffed superman, but it explained how it could give a small edge against those who can't.



Yeah, I definitely can't say I recommend jumping against Raiden. Superman under can be risky though. Jump kicks can beat it and it loses to divekicks.



This isn't the same as Brady's crossover superman thing, although it is a similar idea. Just jumping and using superman the way he was showing doesn't work particularly well against Sonya because she can knock you out if with that ridiculous hitbox on her uppercut. This deals with anti airs more effectively, can deal damage, and should make the whiffed superman less punishable. I'm sure I'm not the first person ever to do this, but you can't give credit for it to Tom Brady

they need to jumpkick before they even are in atk range therefore they will either whiff a jump or get their divekicks blocked + they gotta nticipate it.

they cant blow it up

 

[Chaosphere]

I didn't mean for it to come of as me trashing the thread. Maybe I'm just not comfortable with this strategy. I never try to jik at the top of their head. When I'm trying to get away a jik usually isn't very viable for me but hey maybe its something I haven't explored enough. I didn't take the f2 oki stuff seriously either and i was dead wrong about that. Jik does give some advantage so maybe they wouldn't get a free projectile necessarily. Or maybe even if they do there's enough time to tele and get advantage.

My usual run away strategy is just back dash and try to catch them with b3 when they're trying to catch up.

 

[4x4lo8o]

I didn't mean for it to come of as me trashing the thread. Maybe I'm just not comfortable with this strategy. I never try to jik at the top of their head. When I'm trying to get away a jik usually isn't very viable for me but hey maybe its something I haven't explored enough. I didn't take the f2 oki stuff seriously either and i was dead wrong about that. Jik does give some advantage so maybe they wouldn't get a free projectile necessarily. Or maybe even if they do there's enough time to tele and get advantage.

My usual run away strategy is just back dash and try to catch them with b3 when they're trying to catch up.

I usually backdash and use b3 as well. When I'm keeping them out that combined with trying to get them to jump so I can superman or aa is my main gameplan. But sometimes you're coming up on a corner, or you have a small life lead and it's getting close to end of the match and you don't want to mess with the b3 guessing game that they can potentially armor through or get pressure out of and you just want to get on the other side of the map and that's where it's useful. Either it puts you where you want to be(and you get a bit of chip and meter) or they try to aa and eat 16% and you still get the spacing you want and they might think twice about aa'ing next time you jump.

I obviously shouldn't have made the comparison to Bird Lao, and I guess shouldn't have made a video in training mode of me doing it multiple times, because this isn't something you'd use over and over again. Some characters can blow up it up and some characters there's not much reason to use if against, and even against the characters you'd use it against you wouldn't play the match up by just doing this over and over. But against certain rushdown characters that you just want to stay away from, like Sonya, Cage, and maybe Jax(Cage's non-enhanced shadow kick and Jax's dash punch are both too short ranged to punish) and a few others I haven't explored yet it can be useful. The Sonya match up in particular I feel like it's really useful, because her d4 messes up your b3, she armor through your strings and iadk your pokes, and her divekick and uppercut can make it so hard to switch sides if you're approaching the corner and just want to keep running.

Some characters do a get a free projectile, but those are mostly zoning characters that you probably won't be running away from anyway.

Calm down Evan I wasn't trying to bash on your thread. This is sort of a parlor trick that is generally useful when

1: Opponent attempts to D1 or stand 1 aa in anticipation of a jip
2.: Your crossing them up and they're trying to aa a jip with d1 or stand 1 etc

Those are probably the best situations to use it in imo.. Characters with fast advancing specials can punish it pretty easily though but thats a matter of your opponents reaction time/character. Smoke could smoke bomb, kabal dash, jax dash punch, reptile dash, or say kung lao who could just tele in your face while your recovering.

Those aren't really the situations are I'm getting at with this. Jik does beat anti airs, and Raiden's lucky enough to be able to convert for some extra damage off jump kicks, and this takes advatage of that but that by itself is hardly worth making a thread about at this point in the game's life. Raiden's able to get extra use out of his jumpkicks by turning them into a tool that gets him full screen even if blocked. Obviously, like you said and I said in the first post, some characters can blow this up(although Jax's punch doesn't and I don't think Reptile dash can actually punish, but he can close the space and eliminate the point of using it). You wouldn't use this against those characters. Think about the Sonya match up where you're just dash blocking away most of the match. Use this as she's approaching and if she tries to aa she takes 16% damage and if she blocks you're on the other side of the screen.
I don't think it's a parlor trick. It's situational and match up specific, but that doesn't make it a trick or a gimmick.

 

[KingHippo]

I think this is heavily matchup specific, of course, but legit for sure. If I wanted to be nowhere near my opponent I would definitely take an uppercut or a fireball (12%-ish) to give myself the full screen to walk back more. People tend to do stupid shit on their way in, and if they can't punish it or only for very little, then I don't see why not do it. Jump kicks are very strong jump-ins, and as Raiden, with the flimsy offense (As far as pressure; he has good mixups) he has, a jump punch can only go so far. Letting that time drag on and the need to get in more urgent is really all that matters.

Like if you think about it, against Sonya, you do this move, and your jump kick is placed very high. You're gonna hit her and avoid the cartwheel, you'll nail the uppercut or d1 and on block you cancel into superman, and then her options are basically gumball or try and dash up for stuff. It's a solid runaway option that really shouldn't be overlooked in some matchups.

 

[Axel_Redd]

bird lao is still legit offline

 

[Axel_Redd]

that reminds me....which string is it where jax can wiff air grab and he'll be at advantage.....wtching that vid made me thinkof that.