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Match-up Discussion Beyond the Grave: Tombstone's MU Chart

astronout

see you at the top.
Care to share how he would win? Wake ups are lawl. Pressure is not as successful against NW. Zoning doesnt work out too well. I would be up for calling this 5-5 if you can convince me.
Nightwolf gets out-footsied (soul steal range) and outzoned (that reflect is so baitable with Upskull and Groundskull), he's not getting out of Shang Tsung's corner game, Nightwolf's fastest normal is 7 frames so Shang is gonna win all trades in a GS Trap situation, Shang's EX Soul Steal wake-up is more than enough to deal with Nightwolf's "pressure" on wakeup. hell, even GS comes out 2 frames faster than Nightwolf's EX lightning. I really don't understand this matchup being 6-4. It's 5-5 at the very most.

in addition, both woundcowboy & detroitballin have this matchup as a 5-5.
 

Big D

Relevant In An Irrelevant Time
Nightwolf gets out-footsied (soul steal range) and outzoned (that reflect is so baitable with Upskull and Groundskull), he's not getting out of Shang Tsung's corner game, Nightwolf's fastest normal is 7 frames so Shang is gonna win all trades in a GS Trap situation, Shang's EX Soul Steal wake-up is more than enough to deal with Nightwolf's "pressure" on wakeup. hell, even GS comes out 2 frames faster than Nightwolf's EX lightning. I really don't understand this matchup being 6-4. It's 5-5 at the very most.
5-5 it is. Fixed.
 

AREZ God of War

The Crazy BeastMaster

Lumpymoomilk

Online Punching Bag
Hard to say about Sheeva, any decent NW player I've played was online and the lag was usually horrible which makes lightning and shoulder charges much harder to deal with.
 

NYCj360

i Use a modded cyber now
My Kano is better than j360s. That's right, i said it. I'm the best Kano in the world.

you gotta beat Big D with him first, and the rest of the top players i beat with him before you take my title of kano of DE VORLD lol
HOLD DAT.

and i agree with 5-5, although this matchup is annoying kano footsies keep it leveled. I could have sworn that when night reflects something he can block immediately, and if he cant whats to stop him from just ducking or ex shoulder charging at certain distances? i feel like if its in anyone favor its night wolfs, but then again i need to play this matchup more with d before we determine the numbers.
 

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
Are you saying its better or worse? I considered putting it at 4-6 but I thought it was better as a 3-7.
I don't understand what makes it so bad for Nightwolf. I don't play against Nightwolf often though so maybe you kould explain?
 

Big D

Relevant In An Irrelevant Time
I don't understand what makes it so bad for Nightwolf. I don't play against Nightwolf often though so maybe you kould explain?
Full combo punish a whiffed shoulder for 39%+. Arrows and lightning are completely useless due to instant air teleport. Flamethrower consistently keeps NW out. Wtf can Nightwolf do? 6frame combo starter eats him up.
 

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
Full combo punish a whiffed shoulder for 39%+. Arrows and lightning are completely useless due to instant air teleport. Flamethrower consistently keeps NW out. Wtf can Nightwolf do? 6frame combo starter eats him up.
I had a sektor player say this to me before Final Round...and guess who eliminated him from the tournament.
































I did.

I have it as 4-6...3-7 is a little lopsided. From full screen Sektor cant hit NW. up missles get shouldered (directly overhead) or lightning (when doing in front or behind). straight missles get reflected safely (you cant tele-uppercut NW on reflect). In this MU you shouldnt initiate any offense. you really cant. you just have to react to what sektor does. at full screen NW has the advantage.

Shit...you tricked me into talking about NW positives. touche Big D...touche.
 

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
Nightwolf gets out-footsied (soul steal range) and outzoned (that reflect is so baitable with Upskull and Groundskull), he's not getting out of Shang Tsung's corner game, Nightwolf's fastest normal is 7 frames so Shang is gonna win all trades in a GS Trap situation, Shang's EX Soul Steal wake-up is more than enough to deal with Nightwolf's "pressure" on wakeup. hell, even GS comes out 2 frames faster than Nightwolf's EX lightning. I really don't understand this matchup being 6-4. It's 5-5 at the very most.

in addition, both woundcowboy & detroitballin have this matchup as a 5-5.
It is 5-5. Nobody reflects up or down skulls (other than maybe an absorb for lifelead). Baiting it will be harder than you think. Shang cant zone NW at all. up and down skulls get you shouldered and straight skulls get reflected.

His frame traps are the only thing shang tsung has...and on wakeup he is free to crossups because of his shitty wakeup attacks.
 

Big D

Relevant In An Irrelevant Time
L0rdoftheFLY This is why I asked for your opinion. I said before I thought about 4-6, but 3-7 seemed a bit safer to say. I can fix it to 4-6 if that is what the majority believes...
 

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
you gotta beat Big D with him first, and the rest of the top players i beat with him before you take my title of kano of DE VORLD lol
HOLD DAT.

and i agree with 5-5, although this matchup is annoying kano footsies keep it leveled. I could have sworn that when night reflects something he can block immediately, and if he cant whats to stop him from just ducking or ex shoulder charging at certain distances? i feel like if its in anyone favor its night wolfs, but then again i need to play this matchup more with d before we determine the numbers.
This is correct. After many Matches with beeneeweenies, I can confidently say its 5-5. you may get 1 or 2 knifes to hit but you have just as many if not more reflected back at you with reflects 1 frame startup. and you cant down ball everytime...only from full screen. NW can dash forward and block it for a full combo punish. Its 5-5 for none of the reasons BlackBryan stated. Its only 5-5 due to footsies. kanos normals and jabs are really fucking good.
 

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
Full combo punish a whiffed shoulder for 39%+. Arrows and lightning are completely useless due to instant air teleport. Flamethrower consistently keeps NW out. Wtf can Nightwolf do? 6frame combo starter eats him up.
Good Points. Flamethrower is -18 on block though.

Also, my own Missiles are stopped by reflect. Flamethrower is slower than Shoulder.

The first two hits of the 6 Frame Jab String hit High.

I always put this as a 5-5, but I only really played against Wonder_Chef.
 

trustinme

xbl-OBS trustinme
Good Points. Flamethrower is -18 on block though.

Also, my own Missiles are stopped by reflect. Flamethrower is slower than Shoulder.

The first two hits of the 6 Frame Jab String hit High.

I always put this as a 5-5, but I only really played against Wonder_Chef.
noway man,the sektor match is fucking brutal.im not sure why you'd stand their a throw a naked flame thrower at NW anyway,whats the point in that?
 

AREZ God of War

The Crazy BeastMaster
Sektor vs NightWolf is definitely a series i want to partake in. They have advantages and disadvantages for each other, but up-close and at sweep-distance, I think it goes to Sektor. Reflect most, true, but block, reflect or hit he still has his Homing Missile-traps. NW winds up for a Arrow or Lightning he eats TU into 40%
 

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
noway man,the sektor match is fucking brutal.im not sure why you'd stand their a throw a naked flame thrower at NW anyway,whats the point in that?
He said that Flamethrower keeps Nightwolf at bay so how else would I keep him at bay with Flamethrower?

I think we need to think about this match up more.
 

BlackBryan

B*tch Distributor
you gotta beat Big D with him first, and the rest of the top players i beat with him before you take my title of kano of DE VORLD lol
HOLD DAT.

and i agree with 5-5, although this matchup is annoying kano footsies keep it leveled. I could have sworn that when night reflects something he can block immediately, and if he cant whats to stop him from just ducking or ex shoulder charging at certain distances? i feel like if its in anyone favor its night wolfs, but then again i need to play this matchup more with d before we determine the numbers.
Ahh. So you're the reason my kano shenanigans didn't work on big d. I hate you :). And he can block right away, but generally after a reflect, most nw's that I've fought, go for the ex lightning. Even If they do block; downballs are an incredibly good mobility option, if you know your spacing and angles well enough. Which I'm sure you do, considering your the only other kano that competes with mine. An up ball to hz ball its another great option. What I'm saying is nightwolf is guaranteed to attempt a reflect, your options of rebuttal, with Kano, have a large enough variety that nw doesn't completely shut down kano's zoning like he can with most. But again i will say, I've fought little to no legit nw's.
 

D. R.

Kombatant
Noob/NW is 5-5. Man has one good run in casuals and all a sudden its in favor of NW when we've agreed it's 5-5 a good while ago.


WTF you smoking down in Boca Big D?