Match-up Discussion Beyond the Grave: Tombstone's MU Chart

[Big D]

Recently, I have been playing Nightwolf seriously again... *holds up riot shield*. I am WELCOMING all of your opinions, comments, criticisms, etc.

NOTES: W = Nightwolf wins; T = Tie; L = Nightwolf loses; ?? = Not sure at all and took a guess

Scorpion (W): 6-4
Liu Kang (T): 5-5
Kung Lao (L): 3-7
Sub Zero (L): 4-6
Sindel (??): 5-5
Ermac (T): 5-5
Reptile (T): 5-5
Kitana (L): 4-6
Johnny Cage (L): 3-7
Jade (??): 5-5
Mileena (L): 4-6
Cyrax (L): 3-7
Noob Saibot (T): 5-5
Smoke (L): 4-6
Sektor (L): 3-7
Sonya (L): 3-7 *Possibly 2-8*
Jax (L): 4-6
Kano (T): 5-5
Stryker (W): 6-4
Shang Tsung (T): 5-5
Baraka (W): 6-4
Kabal (L): 3-7
Raiden (T): 5-5
CSZ (W): 6-4
Sheeva (T): 5-5
Quan Chi (T): 5-5
Skarlet (L): 4-6
Rain (??): 5-5
Kenshi (L): 4-6, possible 3-7
Freddy (L): 3-7

 

[Zoidberg747]

I dont have any real experience in the matchup, so I cant comment on baraka. But it looks like a good chart, so well done.

 

[AREZ God of War]

Sindel and Jade are probably 6-4 in their favor; they can't zone him but they don't really need to in order to beat him since they have him in speed and range, Kano,I'm not sure yet, but I do think NW vs Sub and Cyber Sub is 5-5

 

[RYX]

Nightwolf doesn't beat Noob, this is silly.

You're a silly person.

 

[Big D]

Nightwolf doesn't beat Noob, this is silly.

You're a silly person.

Explain.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

I will have no part in this...

 

[Big D]

I will have no part in this...

You will always be in the wolf pack, dead or alive. SPIT IT OUT!!! I NEED YOUR OPINION

 

[AREZ God of War]

Nightwolf doesn't beat Noob, this is silly.

You're a silly person.

lol....NW was pretty much created to demolish Noob....

 

[RYX]

Explain.

At the very least it's even(IMO Noob wins but I don't get to play this character anymore ). You can't reflect shit back at me so already that's a problem; you have to get in, and Nightwolf's pressure isn't like Cage's, I have a far easier time getting you off. I can teleport on reaction to Lightning and Arrow or I can win the trade with a Tackle and keep the zoning advantage. You'll either have to armor through(which means burning up your meter) or be a Jedi. I believe my footsies are better overall because I have mix-ups and far better reach on some of my normals.(B1 can stuff EX Shoulder too.) You can shut down my pressure game but I don't need to even better with getting near you.

That's my case; if I'm missing something here please explain it.

 

[BlackBryan]

Its possible that I've never faced an up-to-par nw, but out of my personal experience, I'd say Kano is 5-5 with him. He can't shut down Kanos zoning like his reflect would lead you to believe. And Kano can heavily punish any and everything NW whiffs. But, like i said, its possible that nobody I've played was good enough to base my theory off of.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Scorp 4-6
Luis kang 3-7
Kung Lao 4-6
Sub zero 3-7
Sindel 5-5
Ermac 4-6
Reptile 4-6
Kitana 4-6
Cage 4-6
Jade 5-5
Mileena 3-7
Cyrax 3-7
Cyblax 3-7
Noob 5-5
Smoke 4-6
Sektor 4-6
Sonya 2-8
Jax 3-7
Kano 5-5
Stryker 5-5
Shang 5-5
Baraka 5-5
Kabal 2-8
Raiden 4-6
Freddy 2-8
Rain 4-6
Kenshi 2-8
Skarlet 3-7
Csub 5-5
Sheeva 6-4
Quan chi 6-4

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Its possible that I've never faced an up-to-par nw, but out of my personal experience, I'd say Kano is 5-5 with him. He can't shut down Kanos zoning like his reflect would lead you to believe. And Kano can heavily punish any and everything NW whiffs. But, like i said, its possible that nobody I've played was good enough to base my theory off of.

yea...he does shut down Kanos Zoning. but it is 5-5. Its the footsies

 

[AREZ God of War]

How does Quan lose to NW? These charts are making my brain hurt and I'm confuzzled

 

[Big D]

At the very least it's even(IMO Noob wins but I don't get to play this character anymore ). You can't reflect shit back at me so already that's a problem; you have to get in, and Nightwolf's pressure isn't like Cage's, I have a far easier time getting you off. I can teleport on reaction to Lightning and Arrow or I can win the trade with a Tackle and keep the zoning advantage. You'll either have to armor through(which means burning up your meter) or be a Jedi. I believe my footsies are better overall because I have mix-ups and far better reach on some of my normals.(B1 can stuff EX Shoulder too.) You can shut down my pressure game but I don't need to even better with getting near you.

That's my case; if I'm missing something here please explain it.

I am going to break down some of this post for you.

"you have to get in, and Nightwolf's pressure isn't like Cage's" : Nightwolf is no Cage, but it doesnt take Cage pressure to stay on Noob. NW's F3 mix up game is very helpful; guess wrong and you are eating 35%+ (if I dont use meter).

"I have a far easier time getting you off." : I don't see how. My d3 beats yours (I believe), and my d3 on hit gives me guaranteed f3 pressure.

"I believe my footsies are better overall because I have mix-ups and far better reach on some of my normals." : Granted, your d3 has more range, but a whiffed d3 when I am just out of range results in my f3 that leads to 39% no meter. By b1,1,hatchet beats ALL of your normals (range-wise) and generates crazy meter on block (so using meter isnt an issue).

 

[Big D]

Scorp 4-6
Luis kang 3-7
Kung Lao 4-6
Sub zero 3-7
Sindel 5-5
Ermac 4-6
Reptile 4-6
Kitana 4-6
Cage 4-6
Jade 5-5
Mileena 3-7
Cyrax 3-7
Cyblax 3-7
Noob 5-5
Smoke 4-6
Sektor 4-6
Sonya 2-8
Jax 3-7
Kano 5-5
Stryker 5-5
Shang 5-5
Baraka 5-5
Kabal 2-8
Raiden 4-6
Freddy 2-8
Rain 4-6
Kenshi 2-8
Skarlet 3-7
Csub 5-5
Sheeva 6-4
Quan chi 6-4

Downplayer.

 

[RYX]

Snip

Interesting. Damn shame you're not on PSN; this MU would be fun to explore further.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Downplayer.

People think I made this post while being emo, but this is 100% how I feel.

And to do with NW what we didwith him just means we are damn good players.

 

[Big D]

Interesting. Damn shame you're not on PSN; this MU would be fun to explore further.

I am hoping to steal my parents PS3 (they only use it for blue ray movies) today and run back home with it.

 

[Big D]

People think I made this post while being emo, but this is 100% how I feel.

Emo downplayer.

EDIT: Emo downplayer that gives us the right amount of credit.

 

[RYX]

Scorp 4-6
Luis kang 3-7
Kung Lao 4-6
Sub zero 3-7
Sindel 5-5
Ermac 4-6
Reptile 4-6
Kitana 4-6
Cage 4-6
Jade 5-5
Mileena 3-7
Cyrax 3-7
Cyblax 3-7
Noob 5-5
Smoke 4-6
Sektor 4-6
Sonya 2-8
Jax 3-7
Kano 5-5
Stryker 5-5
Shang 5-5
Baraka 5-5
Kabal 2-8
Raiden 4-6
Freddy 2-8
Rain 4-6
Kenshi 2-8
Skarlet 3-7
Csub 5-5
Sheeva 6-4
Quan chi 6-4

You make me feel sad for Nightwolf.

 

[astronout]

how in the hell does Shang LOSE this matchup?

 

[Big D]

how in the hell does Shang LOSE this matchup?

Care to share how he would win? Wake ups are lawl. Pressure is not as successful against NW. Zoning doesnt work out too well. I would be up for calling this 5-5 if you can convince me.

 

[BlackBryan]

yea...he does shut down Kanos Zoning. but it is 5-5. Its the footsies

He doesn't. At least not as effectively as he does with most of the zoning cast. Knife to down ball, if done right, can punish his reflect 80% of the time. Standing fullscreen isn't always the best option for kano, too many people don't know this. Once the respect for downball is in place, kano is more free to throw out knife barrages or properly downball into a footsie game. D4 into choke shuts down a lot of shoulder ram nonsense as well.

 

[Big D]

He doesn't. At least not as effectively as he does with most of the zoning cast. Knife to down ball, if done right, can punish his reflect 80% of the time. Standing fullscreen isn't always the best option for kano, too many people don't know this. Once the respect for downball is in place, kano is more free to throw out knife barrages or properly downball into a footsie game. D4 into choke shuts down a lot of shoulder ram nonsense as well.

I dont know. Maybe J360 can help clarify

 

[EVB SomeCubanGuy]

Baraka losing to some casino owning savage? Blasphemy.