Guide - Mournful Beginner's Guide to Glaive-Storming.

[SM StarGazer]

"A unduckable projectile that is both safe and hits overhead when preformed in the air, and is one of the fastest projectiles in te game."

Isn't it like nearly 25f start up? This is what turned me off the character, what do you mean fastest projectiles in the game?

Still one of the fastest. After its release it travels fairly quickly

Midscreen. Don't do the jip 1 go for f43 right out if you wish.

 

[God Confirm]

Still one of the fastest. After its release it travels fairly quickly

Midscreen. Don't do the jip 1 go for f43 right out if you wish.

Oh so you just meant travel time? Because even factoring in travel time that start up makes it one of the slowest projectiles man

To put it in perspective Ermacs Soul Ball is twice the speed

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

Oh so you just meant travel time? Because even factoring in travel time that start up makes it one of the slowest projectiles man

To put it in perspective Ermacs Soul Ball is twice the speed

I've been noticing that StarGazer seems to upplay Mournful. And yea to me glaive has pretty slow startup. The travel speed is just average, nothing bad or special about it

 

[SakuraMadoi]

BLAZBLUEEEEEEEE

 

[SM StarGazer]

Oh so you just meant travel time? Because even factoring in travel time that start up makes it one of the slowest projectiles man

To put it in perspective Ermacs Soul Ball is twice the speed

Even so it's fast enough, full screen, to be safe and allows you to jump over that soul ball and throw another glaive. All in all, Ermac would lose that zoning war. The projectile maybe fast but the recovery on glaive is what makes it damn fast.

Example: Your gun shots one bullet in 1 second. It hits the target in just under 3 seconds, but you cannot shot another for an extra four seconds.

Your opponents gun shots one bullet in 2 seconds, it takes 4 seconds to hit its target, but you can fire another in just under 1 second.

Even though your gun may fire slower and your bullets are slower your putting out more shots in the long run.

 

[God Confirm]

Even so it's fast enough, full screen, to be safe and allows you to jump over that soul ball and throw another glaive. All in all, Ermac would lose that zoning war. The projectile maybe fast but the recovery on glaive is what makes it damn fast.

Example: Your gun shots one bullet in 1 second. It hits the target in just under 3 seconds, but you cannot shot another for an extra four seconds.

Your opponents gun shots one bullet in 2 seconds, it takes 4 seconds to hit its target, but you can fire another in just under 1 second.

Even though your gun may fire slower and your bullets are slower your putting out more shots in the long run.

Sure but You described it as one of the fastest projectiles in the game when it's not even middling it's one of the slower ones, and that is specifically what I asked about in my question, not comparing it to Ermac that was just a point of reference to how slow it. I was wondering if I was missing something or some way to use it but as someone else said you seem to really have an investment in up playing this variation so I guess that confirms what I though. Also FYI Ermac Soul Balls are much faster, have better recovery, and do more damage AND that's assuming no Orbs are up, so I'm not so convinced in your analysis, but that's neither here nor there.

 

[mattnin]

Very awesome guide. There is a lot to digest here and a lot to work on. Thank you so much!

 

[SM StarGazer]

Sure but You described it as one of the fastest projectiles in the game when it's not even middling it's one of the slower ones, and that is specifically what I asked about in my question, not comparing it to Ermac that was just a point of reference to how slow it. I was wondering if I was missing something or some way to use it but as someone else said you seem to really have an investment in up playing this variation so I guess that confirms what I though. Also FYI Ermac Soul Balls are much faster, have better recovery, and do more damage AND that's assuming no Orbs are up, so I'm not so convinced in your analysis, but that's neither here nor there.

Play her for yourself. In a game where frama data can be misleading I to find myself wondering why, on paper, its slower, but in game its like a Storm of projectiles.

Look at Matchs where MiT is slaughterering with Mournful. Shit dont stop. It's not upplaying, It's flat out spacing. Mournful is a footies monster, as Kitana in general is. Play your part and the character will show you its worth. Why do you think tech is found, or options are added to the meta. Upplay is such a harsh word. I suppose I'll wear it proudly. Gotta start backwavedash-iAEGin' boyz.

And no. Not a jab.

 

[God Confirm]

Play her for yourself. In a game where frama data can be misleading I to find myself wondering why, on paper, its slower, but in game its like a Storm of projectiles.

Ah so the frame data is wrong now is what you are saying? Is it possibility you are just wrong, have you tested it? If I can factually prove that the frame data is actually correct, will you admit that this is actually one of the slower projectiles in MKX?

P.s. I ignored all that other shit, because I didn't say any of that. I didn't say the character is bad, just that describing Glaives as one of the fastest projectiles in the game is wildly inaccurate

 

[SM StarGazer]

This isnt a discussion about whether she is bad or not. It's the fact that even with all of these amazing zoning tools Glaives are still considered one of the best. Hell fans are 19 frame but even then Mournful's 24f Glaive is still in the picture. It is deceitfully fast. Yes it maybe a frame data hiccup. And it boils down to the data. On hit fans are +14, Glaives are +11. Glaives are only -3. Fans -8. Yes I've labbed this. Mournful is a zoner. A damn good on. It's literally her whole design.

On paper. Yes it appears to be a slow, average projectile. In game with intellect, it's a knife through butter. And don't forget that it can be done in the air, at an angle no less. Add yet a another deceitful gimmick to the board.

 

[God Confirm]

This isnt a discussion about whether she is bad or not. It's the fact that even with all of these amazing zoning tools Glaives are still considered one of the best. Hell fans are 19 frame but even then Mournful's 24f Glaive is still in the picture. It is deceitfully fast. Yes it maybe a frame data hiccup. And it boils down to the data. On hit fans are +14, Glaives are +11. Glaives are only -3. Fans -8. Yes I've labbed this. Mournful is a zoner. A damn good on. It's literally her whole design.

On paper. Yes it appears to be a slow, average projectile. In game with intellect, it's a knife through butter. And don't forget that it can be done in the air, at an angle no less. Add yet a another deceitful gimmick to the board.

Fans are 8frames when you Insta air, not 19, there is a reason everyone Insta airs them lol.

Go into practice mode as Reptile. Set Kitana to reversal Glaive. Slide him, you are safe (-22). Ex slide him, you get punished (-25). If you don't trust that, Predator has a -23 string that also doesn't get punished. The frame data is perfectly accurate for ground glaives. As for air glaives it's harder to test, and it IS possible they are incorrect frame data - but not in your favour. Even with a perfect IAG Scorps was after to block the Glaive after Takedown at negative -32, I also couldn't punish Raidens B2 with it either. Take it to the lab and try yourself if you don't trust my Insta airs (pro tip: they on point), post the video if I got it wrong.

Sorry, but you are factually and absolutely incorrect. -3 on block doesn't make up for it being triple the start up lol, I'm sorry but the other guy was right, you are up playing, at this point you are in denial of reality just call it what it is, a very slow projectile but with good recovery, safe on block and a sweet hitbox. Calling it one of the fastest in the game is just ridiculous.

 

[exflyingbooty]

Anyways, i got a question for @SM StarGazer is wakeup ex glaive good or no? i sometimes gimmick people with that or are people letting me get away with murder

 

[SM StarGazer]

Anyways, i got a question for @SM StarGazer is wakeup ex glaive good or no? i sometimes gimmick people with that or are people letting me get away with murder

As a gimmick only. It's hella risky but can be an unexpected reversal. It'll let you know if your opponent is aware or not. Nonetheless it's pure murder.

@God Confirm Okay. Kinda lost me at the scorp part. Sentence is kinda fumbpy, cant really make out what your saying. But yes mi wrong, you right. Still wont find melosing to many zoning wars...slow, fast, garbage, coochie. Don't make me none.

 

[God Confirm]

@God Confirm Okay. Kinda lost me at the scorp part. Sentence is kinda fumbpy, cant really make out what your saying. But yes mi wrong, you right. Still wont find melosing to many zoning wars...slow, fast, garbage, coochie. Don't make me none.

No doubt, all I'm saying is the shit aint fast. And what I was saying is that I think by insta air'ing it you are losing SERIOUS frames, I couldn't punish some serious negative shit like Scorp's slide with it (-32), but I think that's something you might want to look into for your own sake

I was hyped to pick up this character until i got a feel for how slow that projectile is, just not what I'm looking for unfortunately

 

[Leviathan925]

@GLoRToR

No reason not to:
11~EXGlaive, JiP1 (jump over), f43, f43, 21~lift, jump towards~Float, NJP, f4~StaffGrab for extra meter an 1% dmg on 1Bar BnB. (can end with both NJP and f4~Special with nearly all BnBs)

For sample string with JiP~EXGlaive overhead option:
A f43 (and def w/o Ji~Float first) wont connect after a (air)EXGlaive, lift and NJP unless you Ji~Float but even then you cant follow up.
These however connect easy for 32%;
JiP~EXGlaive, f43, 21~lift, jump towards~Float, NJP, f4~StaffGrab or Throat Slice (position change)

 

[champdee]

Actually, to correct myself, it looks Reptile's ex-slide is the only move that can punish Shadow kick.

yeah and it's a real pain in the mu as it allows him to get in easier than other characters (there's others obviously) then it leaves you in this weird "when do I zone, or go in" and not a comfortable one... even though I think that's her gameplan.. well, gotta find a way

Like the guide btw

 

[TarkatanDentist]

yeah and it's a real pain in the mu as it allows him to get in easier than other characters (there's others obviously) then it leaves you in this weird "when do I zone, or go in" and not a comfortable one... even though I think that's her gameplan.. well, gotta find a way

Like the guide btw

It's pretty annoying for sure, but you can still use Shadow Kick as a blockstring ender if Reptile doesn't have meter, at least. And any string which can be safely cancelled into glaive is still viable. Critically, since b3~glaive has no gap in it, Mournful is the one variation where you can make b3 safe on block against Reptile without using meter. Oddly f33~glaive of all things doesn't have a gap either, although the range on that is iffy so it's debatable how viable this is...

On a side note, though, I'm more than a tad sceptical anytime someone cites Mournful's so-called '50/50' between EX air glaive and b3. Air glaive (even if EX'd) is blockable on reaction, and from there you can fuzzy the b3. That's not to say it's something that shouldn't ever be used, of course, in much the same way that I wouldn't say never to use Kitana's float, but all things considered it's a less powerful mix-up than people give it credit for. It does, however, present a good opportunity to land a throw, but calling b3 vs throw a 50/50 is pushing it.

 

[SM StarGazer]

It's pretty annoying for sure, but you can still use Shadow Kick as a blockstring ender if Reptile doesn't have meter, at least. And any string which can be safely cancelled into glaive is still viable. Critically, since b3~glaive has no gap in it, Mournful is the one variation where you can make b3 safe on block against Reptile without using meter. Oddly f33~glaive of all things doesn't have a gap either, although the range on that is iffy so it's debatable how viable this is...

On a side note, though, I'm more than a tad sceptical anytime someone cites Mournful's so-called '50/50' between EX air glaive and b3. Air glaive (even if EX'd) is blockable on reaction, and from there you can fuzzy the b3. That's not to say it's something that shouldn't ever be used, of course, in much the same way that I wouldn't say never to use Kitana's float, but all things considered it's a less powerful mix-up than people give it credit for. It does, however, present a good opportunity to land a throw, but calling b3 vs throw a 50/50 is pushing it.

Conditioning mostly. Or a raw IAEG.

 

[scarsunseen]

Not sure what I should ask this, but considering that this is a "beginner's" thread, I'm going to post here.

Can anyone tell me what Mournful's highest 1-bar corner combo is starting from B14? The highest I've been able to get is 44%. Thanks in advance!

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

Not sure what I should ask this, but considering that this is a "beginner's" thread, I'm going to post here.

Can anyone tell me what Mournful's highest 1-bar corner combo is starting from B14? The highest I've been able to get is 44%. Thanks in advance!

That's the highest (Khaotik found it I think).

 

[scarsunseen]

This is the highest 44% corner 1-bar I got so far in the corner, includes a JIP. Can anyone think of a way to increase the damage? Thanks. I'm gonna try looking up Khaotik's combo also mentioned above.

 

[Leviathan925]

@scarsunseen

Can get 44% without JiP with; b14~EX Glaive, (jump over) J1, f43, 3~Glaive, b14~Lift, JiK~Float, NJP, Uppercut, d1~Staff Grab -18 hits

Does 45% with JiP. Dat 1% extra yooo .

Credit to Dmitriy Simonoff on Youtube.

EDIT: Was playing around with your corner combo and if you do b14~EX Glaive, (jump over) J1, f43, f33~Glaive, 21~Lift, JiK~Float, NJP, Uppercut, d1~Staff Grab you will get 44% without the JiP, 45% with - 19/20 hits

 

[scarsunseen]

@scarsunseen

Can get 44% without JiP with; b14~EX Glaive, (jump over) J1, f43, 3~Glaive, b14~Lift, JiK~Float, NJP, Uppercut, d1~Staff Grab -18 hits

Does 45% with JiP. Dat 1% extra yooo .

Credit to Dmitriy Simonoff on Youtube.

EDIT: Was playing around with your corner combo and if you do b14~EX Glaive, (jump over) J1, f43, f33~Glaive, 21~Lift, JiK~Float, NJP, Uppercut, d1~Staff Grab you will get 44% without the JiP, 45% with - 19/20 hits

Thx, I'll try it later. Appreciate it