Bad fighting habits - Eddy's Theory

Discussion in 'Fighting Philosophy' started by Eddy Wang, Feb 9, 2017.

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  1. Eddy Wang

    Eddy Wang Skarlet scientist

    PSN:
    eddywangmk
    Its true that each fighting game has its own rules, and its also true that the player that can figure it quickly how to bend these rules to their favor most of the time is considered a good player.

    When you pass all that, and the rule book is basically a part of your body, you will start to look more into your type of opponents and their characters more in order to maximize the rules in your favor.

    In base, each player picks a character than works more like an extension of his own body, so it means that these characters will make it stand out what they consider to be their strengths most of the time in order to enforce their wins.

    Its also true that not every character functions as you expect, so in many cases the characters you pick can also provide a weakness you're either forced to deal with it on constant basis, or even overcome it, if you can't pass that barrier, a good player can just exploit that weakness if it affects not only your character but you as well personally.

    This is how we start to notice how players behave in a match according to the game design itself and common people mistakes like error patterns every single player tends to go into once in a while regardless of the fighting game.

    So today i've brought you some that you may be familiar with and you will often see them around when you're fighting or playing a fighting game yourself.

    In order to understand this pretty, well, i'm adding the Laugh's theory to this thread which explains the following:

    There is 3 types of abilities a fighting gamer possesses:
    Body: (means execution rate, and how well a player can execute combos without dropping it)
    Heart: (means basically luck and sheer power of will to do unexpected things and pay off, basically guesses) this is where most of the common mistakes will come in
    Brains (which implicates a player that studies MUs and opponent's behaviours) the most dangerous type of player.)


    All players have all 3, but the results is affected different from person to person because one tend to have a bit more than the others or far more.


    So back to the topic at hand lets start with the first one in the category.

    The Clueless (Character Incompatibility)
    There are in every community a friend or a player who just doesn't know what the hell he is doing, he may see a few people having great results with such character and he is just not getting the same results besides using the same character, the reason is simple, as i said before, if the playstyle the character demands is different to what you're used to, unless you adapt yourself to what the character has to offer you better off just move on to one that fits you like a glove, even if it was supposed to be your favorite character.

    In many cases pretty at some point a few of you were asked by some of your friends which character he should play, and you as a buddy, of course tried to pick a character that could fit your buddy much better.


    The Bunny Hop /Jumping bean
    There is a lot of players who unconsciously jump from time to time, reasons that lead a player to jump into one opponent with a chance of counter are also simpler to spot:
    1. The player can't approach any other way on ground, either with spacing, running, projectiles or normals, most people when put under such situation think the only way to get into someone who is focused on defense all these areas is by air.

    2. The opponent who is being jumped at is not anti-airing or is having a dificult anti-airing with consistency, this leaves an open on their guard which makes easily exploitable to approach, specially if the character doing is pretty good at it (Kung jin for example, Kitana or Hellfire scorpion)

    3. Corner escape is also a situation where most people don't want to be in, so the most common though on escaping a corner is by jumping out of it, sometimes people are so focused on ground game that a jump can be an unexpected thing and create space and relax the pressure window if you're being cornered.

    4. People with fast reaction to projectiles or tendencies will mostly jump on reaction to those which is where the character put under these situations created an opening to themselves, setup jumps doesn't count in here.

    Trigger Happy (Press anything, ignore everything)
    One of the most common mistakes and different from game to game, it can either benefit you or bite you right back, are the ones where players choose to ignore frame advantage or frame traps and tend to escape out by any means necessary by randomly press buttons when he gets hit by a normal.

    Players that presses buttons out of frame traps tend to be one of the following:

    1. Very late reactions, these tend to press a button out of almost anything, even jump attacks that happened ages ago and a simple button press won't counter it

    2. Have no clue of what he is doing, yes it can happen that they are not aware that A or C move frame traps and they shouldn't just press buttons there, yet they press it anyway getting hit by stuff they could easily block.

    3. The do all button, also known as a good button that can and will work under frame traps if your character is mechanically flawed in applying sort of things, expect this button to come out on every frame trap you've put them on if it can work most of the time unless you take heavy risks.

    Yolorcounters (Trigger happy part 2)
    As there are players that press everything, there is also players who uses counters against pressure out of everything, like Daigo when trying escape pressure with Dps in MK we have people trying to escape pressure with armor, dive kicks or so.
    Not that is a bad call, but it can actually be extremely good when the character has one option that works when you try to counter option A like having an armored command grab and a armored slide for example which can both be used as wakeup or reversals under the exact same conditions, to this point countering is not narrowed if they will reverse with armor at all, but if you try to block a slide and they do a command grab instead you lose, and you try to avoid a command grab and they slide instead you lose too, you want to be prepared to counter both options if your character can.

    Bad eye ( not much good of space awareness)
    When a player knows you're good at space control specially with normals, if this same player can't get around your normals when in range they will start to throw their normals and specials just outside of your range, so they can get in your range with the active frames still in work, if the character they're playing doesn't out ranges you, this is a pretty bad play and you can sneak in whiff punishes if by the time they enter in recover you have a normal or a move that can punish them while they're temporarily inside that range.

    Sudden guesser (Random reactions to nothing)
    Its pretty common to see players who in some cases they will just do this or that expecting to hit, there is almost nothing worst than a sudden guesser, who just throws this move out when you're not vulnerable expecting to hit without putting much though into it. A lot of things can be linked into this, such as frustration, super fast reactions to any movement without giving his brain time to process the info which can just force players to lash out moves without actually react to a opening, they just throw it out there expecting your mistake to match their reads or to sudden movement, These players are often easily baited out of their moves.

    Lackey practice (Bad execution factor)
    This is definitely the only body mistake, it can go from anything related to execution such as using a move with a Rank S+ difficulty or doing optimal combos.

    Consistency in fighting games is pretty important, and nowadays there are characters that in order to play strong you need to have some of their tools at disposal 95% of the time

    A player who drops combos often has less chances to win even if he makes perfect reads, since combos are cashed out damage as reward of a guard opening.

    A player that execution factor drops when under pressure tends to face the same issue.

    A player that commits lots of mistakes in fighting games, or unexpectedly keeps scoring convertible hits, if he doesn't have a good execution to compliment this feature he is basically done for.

    Example 1: Akira's just frame Knee is considered one of the hardest moves to execute ever in a fighting game, specially if you don't have a fight stick or hitbox, yet that move alone is so good that plays a huge factor in Akira's playbook specially on DOA, as some of you know DOA is a game with holds for highs, mid punches, mid knees and lows that can be used even when you're getting hit by combos, Akira has a lot of mid punches which ppl tend to look for most of the time, but he also has other launchers, like his knee which needs a mid kick parry to counter, an Akira that can't perform the just frame Knee is basically losing a good amount of Akira's meta and is often facing a constant thread of mid punches holds. While some tend to try use the knee, the most goal is to get that move out like if was water.

    Example 2: Ibuki in SF4 was a high level execution character in all aspects, specially her loops, since she did so little damage without them, you're basically forced to learn her ways to get loops and way to exploit other people weakness with her high level tools like, fake crossups, kunai setups and being able to do 1f links all the time on your loops.


    Blind rushers (Run/Dash to closeup space AND press a button to start pressure)
    There is a lot of rushdown players while pressure is good, a player that focus their mind in offense by running or dash in to close a gap and start mauling, in general most of the time this is a momentum thing.

    Meaning, there is a part in the game they will just decide that now is the time to do that, these type of players often tend to test their opponent's reactions if they can or not decide a counter to such strategy.

    Running in to apply anything, its a 50/50 option and its actually game and character dependent, it can either work good, work too good, or just the very opposite, meaning it can also go way bad.

    Point is, the only reason to do this, is if your character has some really strong options once it he achieves the desired range, if your character has some pretty terrible pressure options or mixups, you're just putting yourself at risk with no guarantee that you by gaining that position you will be getting anything good in return if not mere chance.


    Wait it out (with no life lead)
    Not every player who sits on waiting is doing so because he has a life lead, sometimes they think they can deal with you better if they wait you to go at them, their best option is to wait for you to charge in against them, of course this can be a good or a bad call depending of how their character fend off against your own up close or distant, if their characters can fire projectiles fast enough they're usually doing the right thing, if not, its a pretty big mistake.

    Throw/Break Throw
    This one is pretty subjective, most peoples either don't like to throw that often or don't like to break throws anyway, but the throw mechanic is different from game to game so as its exploits

    MKX for example, throw can be neutral crouched but you don't see this often, and even if throws can be breaked unless the playfield is pretty high due the fear of bigger damage from combos ppl prefer to take 12% damage most of the time.

    In SF throws are broken easy, but due the whiff punish factor on trying them and the Cross Counter factor and the mixups they grant after ppl prefer to take throws.

    Tekken used to be heavy on throws but now is kinda different, some ppl are still throw break masters even after the thow meta change but there are some people who really don't like breaking.

    One of my favorite Jin players in tekken has shown a stage mechanic that favors his throw game, basically if he is cornered he uses a very specific throw that goes straight into floor break on that stage which gives him a massive combo, but if you tech it, the characters always switches sides while teching the throw which puts you in the corner against him, which its happens to be his strongest perk and the character perk, either way, breaking or not, you're screwed.


    I think this is pretty big already, and pretty sure there are far more mistakes out there who weren't listed in here, just don't limit yourself to this only, so in order to sumarize, the real question is, how one expect such things?


    a) MU knowledge: Each character has its own approach in fighting games, you just need to know what options your opponent has at given situations this will unleash a vast of other options to create layers on every read you do like:


    b) Tendencies: Every player stronger or weak has its own routine, and often, from time to time, each one will fall into them leaving their guard up when it happens, its up to you to spot the loop hole and take advantage off it when it happens.

    Its only as good as your will to learn.


    Next theory will be about advanced players, how to engage one, how to find openings, the yolo factor will be thrown under the bus during analysis.
     
    #1
  2. SM StarGazer

    SM StarGazer The voice of reason in a Sea of Salt

    Wonderful read. I personally struggle with Execution during High Pressure situations.
     
    #2
    DC4-3, x TeeJay o and Eddy Wang like this.
  3. I hope Constantine is in injustice 2
     
    #3
  4. @Eddy Wang Loving this thread, going to read it once I get back from school. Fighting game philosophy threads always deliver
     
    #4
  5. Eddy Wang

    Eddy Wang Skarlet scientist

    PSN:
    eddywangmk
    i've seen some people's fingertips shaking when they finish a pretty tough fight its pretty common when one gets match is affecting a player directly.

    I've been there myself as well.
     
    #5
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  6. CrimsonShadow

    CrimsonShadow Administrator and Community Engineer
    Administrator

    I think the major missing archetype is "Robot" -- the player who always does the same thing, in the same situation, every single time. These are the players where you play them 2 games and then everything is downloaded because strings end the same way, the same things happen on wakeup, the same things happen when their pressure is blocked, they jump and backdash at the same times, go for the same setups etc.

    Better players will pick on this to no end.

    I'm trying to break myself into being more unpredictable, but I think it's one of the things that separates true top players from people who are good but have very readable patterns after a couple of games.
     
    #6
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2017
  7. DC4-3

    DC4-3 Low tier button masher.

    A very good read. I found that in pressure situations (going against a top players or close fights) my execution does take a hit, but my reactions take the bigger blow. Almost like a fear of pressing buttons which I have a hard time overcoming it.
     
    #7
  8. Eddy Wang

    Eddy Wang Skarlet scientist

    PSN:
    eddywangmk
    Robots are also a combo of many bad habits, which is why they're very readable after a few games or even 1 round.
     
    #8
  9. CrimsonShadow

    CrimsonShadow Administrator and Community Engineer
    Administrator

    Sorta, but they may not do a lot of the things listed in this thread (jump randomly, or fail to understand their character, blindly rush down). Sometimes they are doing the "right" things, but just don't have enough variation in the when/where.
     
    #9
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  10. GLoRToR

    GLoRToR Jaded since 2011

    What most people miss is a big enough local scene to "grow up" in the right environment and face the right kind of challenges.
     
    #10
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  11. SM StarGazer

    SM StarGazer The voice of reason in a Sea of Salt

    I ran into that today in a long set with Indy. I found myself doing b12 to much so I tried b12-teleport/b1-telportEX/b1 laser and so forth.
     
    #11
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  12. RVB

    RVB twitch.tv/rvblacktail

    XBL:
    rvb1101
    Steam:
    rvblacktail
    we talkin' about bad habits? BAD MOTHERF*#KIN' HABITS??? Imma tell you people what a bad habit is... WHERE MA SZ PLAYERS AT???... a BAD HABIT is kloning in the neutral when your opponent throws a projectile at you AND IT TRADES WITH SAID PROJECTILE rendering you safe BCUZ NRS in their MOTHERF*#KIN' wisdom thought SZ needs a crutch like that to make 80% of the cast powerless against you BUT TOOK AWAY the klone staying on block to make you lose EVERY DAMN TAKEDA MATCH EVER.
    GG MOTHER*#KERZ G MOTHERF*#KIN' G

    #loosingtoTakeda100%=BADHABIT:DOGE:DOGE:DOGE:DOGE:DOGE:DOGE:DOGE:DOGE:DOGE:DOGE:DOGE:DOGE:DOGE:DOGE:DOGE:DOGE:DOGE:DOGE:DOGE:DOGE:DOGE:DOGE:DOGE
     
    #12
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  13. Cashual

    Cashual PSN: Cansuela

    Really good thread, and honestly I feel like to varying degrees, I have all of these problems. Feels bad man.
     
    #13
    Eddy Wang likes this.
  14. Believe it or not, this is very common. In fact in the Capcom Cup of Mago vs. Infiltration, at one point Mago's hands are jittering like crazy from all the pressure. Just take a look of the GIF below (when Mago attempts to adjust his glasses), and shoutout to Aris for pointing this out on his stream a while back. Not even the commentators noticed it:

    [​IMG]
     
    #14
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  15. Eddy Wang

    Eddy Wang Skarlet scientist

    PSN:
    eddywangmk
    There is no how, once you've met your match things like these tend to happen.
     
    #15
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  16. Eddy Wang

    Eddy Wang Skarlet scientist

    PSN:
    eddywangmk
    Whatever i smoked this day, i think i need to do it again, so much wisdom
     
    #16
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  17. Saltea Moonspell

    Saltea Moonspell "I'm a zoner, with ma boner"
    Premium Supporter

    Steam:
    moonspell_pl
    Great write up Eddy. Really nice work. Now lets get our hands on that Skarlet, and shine like the old days!
     
    #17
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  18. Eddy Wang

    Eddy Wang Skarlet scientist

    PSN:
    eddywangmk
    you bet
     
    #18
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  19. Darth-Nero

    Darth-Nero Come Thunder! Come Lightning!

    How do i bookmark this thread?
     
    #19
  20. xenogorgeous

    xenogorgeous Your politics bore me!
    Premium Supporter

    very good and interesting reading we got here .... well done, Eddy, well done ! very useful argumentation indeed ! :)
     
    #20

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