Strategy Back-up characters for Sub Zero

[NKZero]

I have always found this very intriguing because I for one cannot use Sub Zero for every match-up. While Sub does have some very favourable match-ups, he has a hell of a lot of bad ones as well (far too many for my liking!). Anyways I want to know which characters you guys use to cover up the bad matches when you know that Sub isn't a viable option. I have noticed that many people use Johnny Cage as a secondary character for Sub Zero. So guys, who else do you have? Also it doesn't have to be strictly a bad match-up. It could be a particular character that you feel uncomfortable using Sub against.

vs Kano: Sektor
vs Kung Lao: Sektor
vs Smoke: Johnny Cage
vs Kitana: Sektor
vs Mileena: Kabal
vs Sektor: Kabal
vs Noob Saibot: Sektor
vs Nightwolf: Sektor
vs Kenshi: Sektor
vs Jax: Johnny Cage
vs Raiden: Johnny Cage

 

[salvificblood]

I don't really have counterpicks because I only play the characters I like. Sub, Cyber Sub, Noob and I've picked up Smoke now, as well, just because he's the first character I played when mk9 came out, so I've always liked him. I've tried to play Johnny Cage, Liu Kang, Kung Lao, Sektor and even Raiden but can't play them because they're all boring as hell to me. My playstyle doesn't suit any of them so I just stick to characters my playstyle can agree with.

The only two matchups Sub has that are that bad are Kung Lao and Raiden. Everything else is winnable.

 

[charlieonline]

Really Sektor to counterpick Kenshi, Kitana and Noob. How does that work?

 

[salvificblood]

Really Sektor to counterpick Kenshi, Kitana and Noob. How does that work?

Yeah, and why pick Sektor to counter Kung Lao? Johnny Cage should be much better at that.

 

[NKZero]

Sorry the Kenshi was actually an error. Kabal for Kenshi. As for Kitana, Sektor out zones her imo so she has to get in. Noob match just instant teleport the clones and punish. As for Kung Lao, I don't really have an answer for him with anyone. My Sektor does best tho so thats why...

 

[TogetherLemon]

I personally like to use cyber sub, because he has a different playstyle but he has similar specials, so I think it is easy to use both interchangeably.

 

[NKZero]

Is there anyone in particular you use Cyber Sub against? Or dyou use both Zero's fairly equally?

 

[Big Pampering]

I don't really have counterpicks because I only play the characters I like. Sub, Cyber Sub, Noob and I've picked up Smoke now, as well, just because he's the first character I played when mk9 came out, so I've always liked him. I've tried to play Johnny Cage, Liu Kang, Kung Lao, Sektor and even Raiden but can't play them because they're all boring as hell to me. My playstyle doesn't suit any of them so I just stick to characters my playstyle can agree with.

The only two matchups Sub has that are that bad are Kung Lao and Raiden. Everything else is winnable.

I can see kenshi,noob,kitana,mileena, jax, sonya and maybe some other characters being a lot worse than raiden.

 

[darthdragonking]

would smoke be a good back up character for sub-zero ?

 

[SwiftTomHanks]

I keep hearing Noob covers up a lot of Sub Zero's bad match ups. Not sure on any specifics or why, just something I would look into.

As far as an anti-Kung Lao, Sektor is where it's at! I'm now 10 for 10 on baby'ing any east coast Kung Lao player while telling them I'm not going to block. The match up is a joke.

 

[NKZero]

I keep hearing Noob covers up a lot of Sub Zero's bad match ups. Not sure on any specifics or why, just something I would look into.

As far as an anti-Kung Lao, Sektor is where it's at! I'm now 10 for 10 on baby'ing any east coast Kung Lao player while telling them I'm not going to block. The match up is a joke.

Woah what??! I thought KL was bad for Sektor. Please enlighten me my friend . D'you think I'm better off trying Sektor vs Kung Lao rather than picking Cage for Lao?

 

[NKZero]

PS I know I said up there that I picked Sektor but I now feel more comfortable with Cage. Also I don't play with Kabal anymore so this shit is too old lol

 

[SwiftTomHanks]

Woah what??! I thought KL was bad for Sektor. Please enlighten me my friend . D'you think I'm better off trying Sektor vs Kung Lao rather than picking Cage for Lao?

You have an easy punish on low hat from any distance on the screen. If he low hats from 3/4th to full screen you can TU on reaction (don't even have to iTU). Up close the low hat is punishable by 12b1. If he teleports you have a quick uppercut that will easily shut that down. If he EXes his teleport you can dash forward and wait for him to land since he will not auto correct, you will get free pressure or sometimes the armor goes away fast enough where I have actually gotten a full punish. Since his damage is rather low you can feel free to use meter as necessary unlike matches against characters who pump out 40+ on a regular basis. In terms of his strings, block low since his overheads are very telegraphed (he grabs his hat). When ending a combo in an up missile trap you can bait any of his unsafe wake ups, or you can end in flamethrower up close and dash in quickly blocking to bait a spin. From full screen, it's not that hard to outzone him since you can fire a missile to bait a teleport and still have time to uppercut.

 

[salvificblood]

Characters I've tried but not really gelled with despite liking the character initially: Cyber Sub-Zero, Smoke, Kitana, Raiden

The character I am actually really digging playstyle wise is Johnny Cage which seems ridiculous to me because I thought his playstyle would be a really bad fit for me but what I've found is that I play Sub with really aggressive footsies and Cage plays the exact same way from footsies range. It's like you play him with an ice clone; as soon as somebody enters jumpin range, it's on.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

Cyrax. If it's somebody I can't keep up with my Clones & defenses & absolutely have to rush down, Cy's the man.

I honestly feel the most comfortable with Sub out of anybody I play, but there's some matches he just can't win without the touch of the Gods.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Cyrax. If it's somebody I can't keep up with my Clones & defenses & absolutely have to rush down, Cy's the man.

I honestly feel the most comfortable with Sub out of anybody I play, but there's some matches he just can't win without the touch of the Gods.

There aren't as many as you think. I've been playing more Sub vs. Mileena lately and having much better success. Brady's stuff works wonders. Sometimes I get stuck in the moment and whine just like everyone else.
Kabal and Kenshi really are the only two that I just have really no answer for. I get to predictable and I don't know how to stop.

In any case... I use Ermac against those two, and sometimes against Kitana. I feel that he can really punish them if I make a good read, and I don't have to make as many with his damage (45% on avg).

If you like to keep distance and have good spacial awareness... I think Noob is good as well. He can really frustrate people into mistakes.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

There aren't as many as you think. I've been playing more Sub vs. Mileena lately and having much better success. Brady's stuff works wonders. Sometimes I get stuck in the moment and whine just like everyone else.
Kabal and Kenshi really are the only two that I just have really no answer for. I get to predictable and I don't know how to stop.

In any case... I use Ermac against those two, and sometimes against Kitana. I feel that he can really punish them if I make a good read, and I don't have to make as many with his damage (45% on avg).

If you like to keep distance and have good spacial awareness... I think Noob is good as well. He can really frustrate people into mistakes.

I play Noob, too . Just not very often.
Brady's Sub revival is gonna do wonders for him in the long run, but I also feel like Kenshi & Kabal are two that I feel like I'd be setting myself up for defeat against if I didn't go robot or sorcerer. You've gotta be unorthadox as all hell.
I'll keep trying, though...Kabal, I at least feel like I have a chance if I can beat back the NDC's, but it is soooo fucking tedious trying to get inside on Kenshi when his Reflect means the only tool I really have from a distance is the easily-readable EN Slide.

Mileena's always given me problems. Always. But no more than usual with Subby.

 

[Z-911-Z]

If I were purely Sub-Zero, I would only go out of my way to counterpick or go even with Kenshi by choosing Cyblax or Jax. Kenshi from my experience is Sub's only 3-7 match that's worth choosing another person for.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

Characters I've tried but not really gelled with despite liking the character initially: Cyber Sub-Zero, Smoke, Kitana, Raiden

The character I am actually really digging playstyle wise is Johnny Cage which seems ridiculous to me because I thought his playstyle would be a really bad fit for me but what I've found is that I play Sub with really aggressive footsies and Cage plays the exact same way from footsies range. It's like you play him with an ice clone; as soon as somebody enters jumpin range, it's on.

yeah, but um... doesn't he struggle at the same things that Sub does? IE against zoners... and really good up close like Sub? lol

I'm working on Kenshi and Noob right now. Thinking... if you can't beat zoners with Sub, go with a zoner yourself! lol

I've tried Kung Lao, Raiden, Rain, Cage, Tsung .... all as secondaries, but I just can't really get into those guys like I do with Sub-Zero. I guess that's b/c he's my favorite character? lol

I'm still decent with Smoke, I think, but I don't really have a go to secondary character. Hoping Kenshi or Noob will become that.

 

[salvificblood]

yeah, but um... doesn't he struggle at the same things that Sub does? IE against zoners... and really good up close like Sub? lol

I'm working on Kenshi and Noob right now. Thinking... if you can't beat zoners with Sub, go with a zoner yourself! lol

I've tried Kung Lao, Raiden, Rain, Cage, Tsung .... all as secondaries, but I just can't really get into those guys like I do with Sub-Zero. I guess that's b/c he's my favorite character? lol

I'm still decent with Smoke, I think, but I don't really have a go to secondary character. Hoping Kenshi or Noob will become that.

Yeah but Cage is absolutely ridiculous, he's faster than Sub so has fewer mobility problems and once he does get in, it's over no matter who you are. I just like his playstyle. He has great advancing normals and the best antiairs so it suits me. I don't want to play tocounterpick, I just want to play the characters I enjoy playing.

I will never play Kenshi! Lol.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

my day 1 Lao wrecks Kenshi. God I felt dirty just thinking that thought to type that message.

I like Cage against Jax. I just don't like fighting Jax with SZ for some reason. and Cage covers KL. Cage limits what those two can do in their matches... especially Jax.

 

[NKZero]

my day 1 Lao wrecks Kenshi. God I felt dirty just thinking that thought to type that message.

I like Cage against Jax. I just don't like fighting Jax with SZ for some reason. and Cage covers KL. Cage limits what those two can do in their matches... especially Jax.

I think Cage is the general second pick for a Sub Zero player it is quite intriguing and yes he does cover those tricky match-ups. I love too many characters though to just stick to 2. I play 5 lol!

 

[Death]

Here are subs bad MUs IMO. I think a good back-up character would be KL. Kenshi is probably Subs worst MU and KL really blows Kenshi up. KL goes even or better against Cyrax, Ermac, Freddy, Kabal, Noob, Raiden, Sindel, Smoke. That leaves a KL mirror, Jax and Kitana. KL can still beat all those characters so IMO is a good secondary/counter-pick. I hope the post helps.

Cyrax
Ermac
Freddy
Jax
Kabal
Kenshi
Kitana
Kung Lao
Noob
Raiden
Sindel
Smoke

 

[salvificblood]

Here are subs bad MUs IMO. I think a good back-up character would be KL. Kenshi is probably Subs worst MU and KL really blows Kenshi up. KL goes even or better against Cyrax, Ermac, Freddy, Kabal, Noob, Raiden, Sindel, Smoke. That leaves a KL mirror, Jax and Kitana. KL can still beat all those characters so IMO is a good secondary/counter-pick. I hope the post helps.

Cyrax
Ermac
Freddy
Jax
Kabal
Kenshi
Kitana
Kung Lao
Noob
Raiden
Sindel
Smoke

A lot of those are 4.5-5.5's, though. Noob, Smoke, Cyrax, Ermac, Raiden, Freddy and Jax are all 4.5-5.5 at worst, imo. Watch Denzell's Sub vs Tyrant's Jax. It's very close. I would say some of those are 5-5, too.

I agree with what you're saying about kung Lao, but I'd rather use Cage. I hate Kung lao's playstyle where Cage is more footsies and rushdown like Sub. Cage may have some similar difficulties matchup wise, but I agree with Foxy Grampa that Cage beats anyone once he's in.

 

[NKZero]

Here are subs bad MUs IMO. I think a good back-up character would be KL. Kenshi is probably Subs worst MU and KL really blows Kenshi up. KL goes even or better against Cyrax, Ermac, Freddy, Kabal, Noob, Raiden, Sindel, Smoke. That leaves a KL mirror, Jax and Kitana. KL can still beat all those characters so IMO is a good secondary/counter-pick. I hope the post helps.

Cyrax
Ermac
Freddy
Jax
Kabal
Kenshi
Kitana
Kung Lao
Noob
Raiden
Sindel
Smoke

when you say bad match dyou mean truly bad matches or only disadvantaged match-ups. I don't think Ermac and Cyrax are that bad and maybe not even Smoke so...