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Back from the lab.

Alice

Haaave you met Sektor?
I was looking for some new things to do with my beloved Csz, and I'd like to share what I found.
It may contain some already known stuff, my apologies if I hit on somethin old and dusty.
So:

First of all a 38% meterless midscreen wich is JIP, 2,1,ice ball,JIP,2,2,2+1, dash, f1, u4. It's a lot easier to connect with the added f1 in the combo, but takes the option of the bomb cancel, but the point is that even online it is viable, and seems to be strongest one without meter in midscreen.

The second thing is that after the 2,2,2+1 juggle starter you can ex-freeze the opp and the trick is if you do an u4 on the frozen opponent than bomb cancel the bomb will appear contrary to most of the cancels after freeze. Well it's a good idea to spit out the close bomb than the mid bomb instantly. The reason is that if you opp rolls it will hit by the mid bomb. If does nothing will hit by the close bomb. If gets up and blocks will hit by the close bomb. Unfortunatley it will not freeze all the time, but it is possible.
As the opp lies on the ground you can do the following things: Block expecting a wake up attak that will not be negated by the close bomb. The good part of the close bomb is that it wil negate rushdown and a few wakeup attack.s If you blocked something that can be punished you punish, like teleport attacks that will not get hit by any of the bombs.
The second option is that you close divekick immediately and make your opp to counter (wich will fail because of the bomb) or block and get hit by a bomb.
It takes one meter but in the worst case it does 37% damage. 37% is the minimum since if you get in with the dive kick it's 43%, if both bombs hit (it is possible) it is a 51%. If you manage to freeze or block an incoming punishable attack you can add a full combo, for example the one written above wich is without the 2,1,ice ball and JIPs is 30%.

What else?
Yes, there are a few other things, but they are not exact moves, just some stuff that may have some use.
So after some of the attacks you can throw out a bomb immediately. I won't list them, after most of his attacks you can do that.
Now the thing is as we know Csz is one of the fastest moving characters in the game, and it has a big advantage here.
If you throw out that bomb and you dash in as fast as it is possible you will leave little to no time for your opp to think whats next with a bomb in his ass. Your next step is the 2,1,1+2 combo wich is good because if your opp blocks your attack it will carried into the bomb and the last hit will pop him up. If not, he will get hit by the combo and by the bomb too. The combo written above in this variant will give a 33% with the bomb, if the first two hits are blocked I don't know how much, but around 29% or so with the chip damage.
I do not recommend any combo using ice ball here, since the bomb will hit and the freeze won't happen, the bomb will hit the opp after it. So stick with 1,2,1+2. Or dash 3,4 (bomb hits) slide. Your choice. Both carries the opp to the bomb and open a combo possibility. But the 1,2,1+2 is just better.
For this I found the jip, u4, bomb cancel, 2,1,1+2, dash f1, u4 string the best, it is 19%+33% overall. 52%. Around 48% if 1,2 is blocked. Even if Jip u4 is blocked and 1,2 it is around 40%. So why not?

There is another shit ton of ways to play around with that bomb after an attack, like u4 bomb cancels on a frozen opp, or b22,close bomb, 33 (bomb freezes) u4, bomb cancel, 3,4, (bomb hits) slide. Or if you do your mid bomb 1,2,2+1 without dash it will freeze the opp instead of popup, so many little things can change here depending on if your opp blocks, if you dash or not, what move you use, so your decision, but you should play around with those bombs. Fact is that it makes you vulnerable for a small time but on the other times you will do nothing but attack and attack leaving your opponent with the choice to eat that or eat a bomb and another combo. And if you combine it with the one written above (the close and mid bomb dive kick set) you can really freak out players and make overly agressive ones do mistakes and defensive players fall to the bombs. It's just that you need to be very-very fast with that, if you leave a big enough window for the opp to counter you you failed, that's why I recommend the b22 start always since it will leave the opp in a stagger state for a while helping you a lot.


Ohh, and for the last one, I think I found an actual use of the Upload combo. It is the b2,4. Of course besides the corner X-ray thingy, but im not a big fan of x-rays at all with Csz..seriously. Who does that?
So, we have our Jip,2,1,ice ball,Jip,2,1,1+2 dash and here is the trick, b2,4 after that. It is a 35% wich is 3% less then the one above but there are two things to be mentioned. First of all it has a faster recovery and carry the opp further then the f1,u4 variant. And because of this you can do the following. This combo (in the training stage from the starting position it carries the opp just a step away from the corner) two dashes like lightning and 3,4,3,4,3,4 corner pressure ftw!
Because of the faster recovery you actually have the time to get there and start the pressure. That -3% is not that bad not to try that a few times. And with the well known 3,4,3,4,3,4 slide you can dish out another 34%. So it is a 69%
total if you manage to connect all of it. The worst case: you lock your opp down in the corner.

Hope it gives you a few ideas to keep your rushdown stable and deadly.
I was looking at what am I doing and I got scared of Csz a lot. He's fast. And unblockable.


Cheers
 
Mid-screen. The best damage is JIP21xxFreeze, JIP211+2, dash, U4xxSlide: 43%. I prefer to cancel into bombs.
The only strings worth canceling into short bombs are U4, B22, and F221. For the most part, F221 is the best, however it becomes too predictable.

Always nice for people to contribute regardless.
 

Alice

Haaave you met Sektor?
Yeah, well you are right with the mid screen combo, the only thing that online I would not rely on the naked u4 after popup. The timing seems pretty tight for me and with the input delay I can do it once about 10 times. Offline of course this is the shit because of the cancels be it slide or bomb.

U4 is the best to cancel since for you it has the fastest recovery, the longest stagger state for the opp and the best spacing as well I believe. If not blocked
it's really a free juggle starter most of the time.
Still many times your aim is not to get the bomb in, but shut down expected counters with close bomb, negate wakeups and bait teleports, attacks. This is what the close-mid bomb thing about.

Trolling: U4, mid bomb, dash, 3,3 (for some reason it freezes), U4, mid bomb, dash, 3,3, freezes, etc...
I think non of us will ever list the options for blockstrings after a bomb thrown out, but each of them have a right situation, think
we should look deeper into this gameplay of Csz, we can go on with high-low mixups, but we have unblocakbles in our armory too.
Still believe this character can be top tier with just a bit different playstyle then usual.
 
Alice thanks for this contribution. I'm starting to get in to CSZ now. I'm trying to devise ways to force the opponent into an ice bomb. Any ideas? I think cryo bomb (3 bombs at once) can be very useful. Follow it up with a dive kick or slide forcing them to block then get frozen. I dunno just thinking out loud here. Tell me what you think.
 

Flagg

Noob
People keep: "Saying buff his slide". "Buff his divekick". You know what would help him with that zoning garbage? Buff his teleport ffs. Right now it would make no difference if he didn't have it or not.
 
People keep: "Saying buff his slide". "Buff his divekick". You know what would help him with that zoning garbage? Buff his teleport ffs. Right now it would make no difference if he didn't have it or not.

Only use for it as far as I can tell is, if you freeze someone from across the screen, you could teleport then punish. Although, could it be faster to use the fastest dash in the game instead?

J360 may have found a good use for it:

 

Flagg

Noob
Only use for it as far as I can tell is, if you freeze someone from across the screen, you could teleport then punish. Although, could it be faster to use the fastest dash in the game instead?

J360 may have found a good use for it:

Okay that was pretty cool and i'll have a go at using that in my gameplay.

But beyond that, I still want to see the teleport serve the function it is supposed to and that is of mobility. You cannot on reaction escape a projectile, especially against Kitana who he needs to get around zoning the most.

Human SZ teleport isn't fastest and you cant even teleport from that....you get frozen on the last 1 or 2 frames of the move. NRS seriously couldn't have intended CSZ teleport to be that shitty.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Okay that was pretty cool and i'll have a go at using that in my gameplay.

But beyond that, I still want to see the teleport serve the function it is supposed to and that is of mobility. You cannot on reaction escape a projectile, especially against Kitana who he needs to get around zoning the most.

Human SZ teleport isn't fastest and you cant even teleport from that....you get frozen on the last 1 or 2 frames of the move. NRS seriously couldn't have intended CSZ teleport to be that shitty.
an NRS employee once said it was the price of dive kicks.
 

Alice

Haaave you met Sektor?
Alice thanks for this contribution. I'm starting to get in to CSZ now. I'm trying to devise ways to force the opponent into an ice bomb. Any ideas? I think cryo bomb (3 bombs at once) can be very useful. Follow it up with a dive kick or slide forcing them to block then get frozen. I dunno just thinking out loud here. Tell me what you think.

It is depending on your location, and where the opp is, depends on the situation. If you get your opp to the ground a close bomb, mid bomb will do the trick, and block or dive kick after. It's a guessing game, and depends on the matchup what is wise to choose in this situation.
3 bombs for 1 bar is good, but mostly useless, if you throw one bomb to a good place, or two fast it's enough to make your opp do a certain move.
For example Scorpion. You throw out two bombs, one close, one mid. He can't rush you down, he can't stay where he is now, so a teleport attack is a solution, wich you will block and you punish with a full combo.
You can force your opp into the bomb in many ways, with blockstring for example wich mostly do better then the dive kicks in this situations.
And it is better to make up a situation when you can stay close since those bombs seems to be the most effective if you can lock your opp down.
 

Alice

Haaave you met Sektor?
At this point I feel like he needs no buffs. Yes, there are things we all hate, but it is because we try to use some of his tools for the wrong purpose.
Teleports are not to do anything with zoning. It is for mixup gameplay and geting close to a frozen opponent.
Against zoning we have tools like slides, divekicks and ex-freezes. One of the three will eventually work against a certain character. For Kitana that would be ex-freeze, because you can't slide it, can't divekick it, but ex-freeze does the trick. If not that a bangport attempt with duck block, or with a 3,4 follow up if timed right.
Other thing I recognized is that if you try to trade projctiles normal freeze is just better SOMETIMES even if it is slower. If you do an ex-freeze and a projectile that will not put you into a vulnerable state (kitanas fans, mileena sai, shangs skulls.etc) will hit you your beam will disappear, but the normal iceball will stay there and you got hit, but the opp will be frozen. Against moves that will put you in a vulnerable state (subs iceballs, scorpions spear, etc)
an ex freeze is better since the beam will stay and will freeze the opponent even if you get a hit with the advantage they stay frozen for longer. Great way to trade iceballs with SZ.
So there are many ways to get out of a hands of a zoner, but it is not the teleport in any way.
 

NYCj360

i Use a modded cyber now
One thing that I see no one use is something like mid bomb, I'd they walk back ex bomb so that 2 bombs come out where they try to walk to. Then they are forced to jump. Giving you a damage oppourtunity. Close bomb then ex works just as well.

Sent from my HTC Sensation XE with Beats Audio using Tapatalk
 

RampaginDragon

Loses to uppercuts
Here is something I came up with the other day, jip, 21 freeze, jip, u4 tele. It lands you in a huge frame advantage (almost a frame trap) and you can mix them up with 33 or 34 or get cross up pressure. Sure, you’re sacrificing a full damage combo/ reset, but if you land 33 ex freeze, you just bumped a 70% reset to a 90+ reset. Just a little tech I thought I would share.

And the u4 after the 211+2 is not hard to land online, I do it without fail 98% of the time plus using f14 is sacrificing dmg and reset options. Plus a good player will start to pressure you after an u4 naked since its sooooo slow on recovery. I don’t advise ever doing f14 unless your opponent is at very low health and you know that will kill him.

I think buffing his ex-dive kick could be a little cheesy. It would be a great tool, but I feel it would be a little op from what I’ve heard people want to do to it. I agree, I think if he got cyrax's tele that would be enough without giving him an op tool in some situations.
 

NYCj360

i Use a modded cyber now
Here is something I came up with the other day, jip, 21 freeze, jip, u4 tele. It lands you in a huge frame advantage (almost a frame trap) and you can mix them up with 33 or 34 or get cross up pressure. Sure, you’re sacrificing a full damage combo/ reset, but if you land 33 ex freeze, you just bumped a 70% reset to a 90+ reset. Just a little tech I thought I would share.

And the u4 after the 211+2 is not hard to land online, I do it without fail 98% of the time plus using f14 is sacrificing dmg and reset options. Plus a good player will start to pressure you after an u4 naked since its sooooo slow on recovery. I don’t advise ever doing f14 unless your opponent is at very low health and you know that will kill him.

I think buffing his ex-dive kick could be a little cheesy. It would be a great tool, but I feel it would be a little op from what I’ve heard people want to do to it. I agree, I think if he got cyrax's tele that would be enough without giving him an op tool in some situations.
That tech came and went when people started fuzzy guarding the second they see a teleport. I just go for full combos back into situations now. Good stuff that you found that on your own but in the state the game is now you have to do incomplete strings to sneak something in without your opponent bracing themselves for it .

Sent from my HTC Sensation XE with Beats Audio using Tapatalk
 

UsedForGlue

"Strength isn't everything"
One thing that I see no one use is something like mid bomb, I'd they walk back ex bomb so that 2 bombs come out where they try to walk to. Then they are forced to jump. Giving you a damage oppourtunity. Close bomb then ex works just as well.

Sent from my HTC Sensation XE with Beats Audio using Tapatalk
I have started following up my 34 Into b22 Mid bomb with :eh bombs to cover ground no mater what. Under-rated.
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
One thing that I see no one use is something like mid bomb, I'd they walk back ex bomb so that 2 bombs come out where they try to walk to. Then they are forced to jump. Giving you a damage oppourtunity. Close bomb then ex works just as well.

Sent from my HTC Sensation XE with Beats Audio using Tapatalk
I have started following up my 34 Into b22 Mid bomb with :eh bombs to cover ground no mater what. Under-rated.
I definitely have been doing this

It's great and guarantees damage after 21 freeze, jip 2 1 1+2 u4 med cancel in many different variations as long as you're prepared for every situation

this is my #1 choice for all situations

edit: dude said it best above, dive kick is his teleport. I think his ex tele can create neat near damn impossible juggles but i swear i might teleport once every 2-3 matches
 

UsedForGlue

"Strength isn't everything"
I definitely have been doing this

It's great and guarantees damage after 21 freeze, jip 2 1 1+2 u4 med cancel in many different variations as long as you're prepared for every situation

this is my #1 choice for all situations

edit: dude said it best above, dive kick is his teleport. I think his ex tele can create neat near damn impossible juggles but i swear i might teleport once every 2-3 matches
I think I teleport once every 7 games...
 

NYCj360

i Use a modded cyber now
I haven't teleported since august of 2011

Sent from my HTC Sensation XE with Beats Audio using Tapatalk
 

Alice

Haaave you met Sektor?
About that u4 teleport and ? thing. So 9 frames for the 1, right? This is the fastest starting attack of Csz. How much frames the stagger state lasts after u4? And in wich frame you can cancel with teleport? Frames you get there and can start the 1? Does anyone have this info here?
 

Alice

Haaave you met Sektor?
By the way I saw that after u4 it matters wich cancel you use, it changes the spacing. :confused:
I will test it tomorrow, but it is something that may be a good thing to play with too.