Match-up Discussion B W1zZ' Raiden Matchup Chart

[Vilén]

raiden players, the problem is that you do not properly use F+24. right now raiden players use 334 and B+312 WAY more then F+24. this is wrong, F+24 is one of the best moves in the game, try using it as such and see what happens in his match ups.

I use the string like heroin.

But I'd like to hear about the proper usage in your own words.

 

[UsedForGlue]

raiden players, the problem is that you do not properly use F+24. right now raiden players use 334 and B+312 WAY more then F+24. this is wrong, F+24 is one of the best moves in the game, try using it as such and see what happens in his match ups.

Agreed. Anytime I play against Raiden with CSZ, players still try to use every other string, other than F24.

 

[B W1zZ]

raiden players, the problem is that you do not properly use F+24. right now raiden players use 334 and B+312 WAY more then F+24. this is wrong, F+24 is one of the best moves in the game, try using it as such and see what happens in his match ups.

I agree F24 should be used more often and is a very good string, but it shouldn't be the only string you use as a raiden player...using ONLY F24 is playing sub-optimally since you want to use B312 and 334 when necessary to inflict more damage. As far as pressuring F24 is probably one of the best option though...4% chip on block and can be followed up with another F24, superman, baiting jump ins etc. The dangerous thing about F24 is you're left open to a crossup if your opponent jumps over you before it connects.

I'm a bit out of practice myself (haven't played in over a month) so if you or PL would like to contribute some uses for F24 feel free.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Can you do to counter a poke 33VB (on standing) bait the poke, F24 super man.

 

[B W1zZ]

Can you do to counter a poke 33VB (on standing) bait the poke, F24 super man.

Okay your saying use 33VB to bait a poke? I'm pretty sure the poke will beat out the VB itself, and if the VB is blocked trying to do a F24 immediately afterwards will more than likely get beaten out by a poke or a combo attempt since it's neutral on block now. The best option after a blocked VB to stuff incoming offense is D3 into F24, or a 121 in my experience.

After VB is blocked a followup F24 will be beaten by any attack faster than 12 frames.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Okay your saying use 33VB to bait a poke? I'm pretty sure the poke will beat out the VB itself, and if the VB is blocked trying to do a F24 immediately afterwards will more than likely get beaten out by a poke or a combo attempt since it's neutral on block now. The best option after a blocked VB to stuff incoming offense is D3 into F24, or a 121 in my experience.

After VB is blocked a followup F24 will be beaten by any attack faster than 12 frames.

Well if a VB is blocked and its neutral, dependent on the character you can backdash out of the way of their poke, but hit them after they throw it out.

Its just an idea, I dont see many players baiting pokes for a free punish so may aswell have a look at what A) You can bait a poke with and B) What you can punish a poke with.

I know that Cages B3 can punish a missed poke and thats 11 frames

 

[B W1zZ]

Well if a VB is blocked and its neutral, dependent on the character you can backdash out of the way of their poke, but hit them after they throw it out.

Its just an idea, I dont see many players baiting pokes for a free punish so may aswell have a look at what A) You can bait a poke with and B) What you can punish a poke with.

I know that Cages B3 can punish a missed poke and thats 11 frames

Actually I believe you can backdash to bait out a poke, which gives enough time to followup with a B312, or possibly a F24 depending on the distance. It works with regular teleport as well...tele/backdash to bait poke/punish with B312 etc.

 

[Metzos]

About the MU vs Ermac you said that it also might be 5-5. Why ? Because from everywhere i see it its a solid 6-4 in Raiden's favor. What got you thinking that it might be a 5-5 MU ?


EDIT: Nvm just read what was under the MU chart. But still in the best scenario is a 5.5-4.5 in Raiden's favor.

 

[Peckapowa]

the pushback on vicinity blast and spacing on teleport allow for good whiff punishment with raiden, especially with back 3 since it is one of the best normals in the game in range and has solid speed, also superman is always a great option. spacing and mixup potential with teleport is what makes raiden potentially the best character in the game

 

[Peckapowa]

personally i think reptile is a 5-5 matchup
sonya is a 5-5 matchup
kano is a 5-5
liu kang is 5-5 (kang can throw fireballs, but kang cant pressure easily AT ALL because of tele but he can punish it

i think raiden has 0 bad matchups.

 

[Cerebru]

I found some new tech that gives Raiden probably a 7-3/8-2 match-up with everyone and it's super easy stuff.

But this is Mortal Kombat so I won't share.

please do tell

 

[GhosT]

B W1zZ @Vilén Can we go into further detail on the jax matchup? My friend blows me up with his jax, Seems like all the pokes and a lot of his strings are interrupting F2 4 and any other string. To his credit he out skills me with better reads so I'm sure a lot of this is on me. But in this matchup what gives raiden the best chance to win? I can't jedi a shocker off of his dash punch. And after landing a d3 of my own I'm getting beat to the F2 4 or any other string. I have even been getting AA off of his low hit leg string. This made me laugh and sad at the same time.

I watched your matches from devastation and admire the rush down style you play with, I just get blown up when i play that manner, Lately i have leveled my raiden A LOT but still have a ton to learn, Things i have going for me is I'm not dropping the BNB mid screens and corners much anymore, but still have a very hard time setting them up, I am starting to beat a lot of characters now that I can use lame run away life lead tactics with, One of my better match ups is smoke. My number one problem is fighting characters with fast normals. it seems like they can just go poke heavy and anticipate when I'm going to try and land a string and beat it out with a faster string. Had some success with teleporting into a superman or ex shocker to beat the pokes, but a lot of the time the pokes will actually beat out the superman. Just looking for a good way to keep them honest after i teleport.(I'm trying to teleport only for defense to set up strings) but i can't lie i still use it for offense from time to time.

When i picked raiden up i had no idea he took this much thought, mind games and skill. It seems like most people thing he's an easy character when in fact he takes perfect timing, perfect reads, and a huge knowledge of frame data and knowing all of the match ups.

It will be a lot of blood sweat and tears before i have a good feel and base for raiden, (mostly tears) but I'm looking forward to it, having a lot of fun playing as raiden, and hope some of you guys with a lot more experience can give me a few tips to ease into my transition of maining raiden.

 

[Grolarbears]

I simply wanted to talk about the Noob matchup here, because Raiden is known as one of his more difficult match ups. A few fellow Noob players have said it is a 6-4 at this point, because Noob can punish Raiden's teleport now, especially helping the match up, which I realize you have already mentioned.

Other than that, though, it feels as though Noob most simply be patient in the match up. If Noob can punish Raiden's teleport every time (with either a throw or 212 or 12, I believe), Raiden has to force his aggression without a teleport, and this is where Noob's zoning is still effective. Upknee being a general trump card (hyperbole, I admit) against rush down, and it being difficult to teleport on reaction to Noob's shadows even from midscreen from mine and others experiences with it. Noob's teleport can also punish Raiden's lightning, but I don't know the distances. They limit eachothers games.

From my experience playing the very solid Raiden I play locally, it is not a 7-3 in Raiden's favor. It is still very manageable with patience. I wish I knew more about Noob vs. Raiden's strings, but I figured it would be interesting discussion. I'm interested in what you guys have to say about it.

Thanks.

 

[Unreal6S]

A a raiden player, I can easily say that this is the most accurate Raiden MU chart. I espacially agree with Raiden vs Sonya MU; I've had so much trouble with her. My one criticism is the Baraka MU, I've played the same ridiculously good Baraka multiple times as Raiden and he seems like an extremely good character for shutting Raiden's teleport down hard.

 

[Chaosphere]

I wish I knew more about Noob vs. Raiden's strings, but I figured it would be interesting discussion. I'm interested in what you guys have to say about it.

Hey check out the thread "Frame Data Conclusions" in this forum and let me know if that helps you out as far as strings go. If there's any other information you're interested in that might be calculable, let me know and I'll see if I can add it.

 

[Hitoshura]

I don't think Raiden vs Noob is a 7-3.

Not that bad. 6-4 imho

 

[Espio]

I think Raiden v.s. Stryker is 5-5, but that's just my opinion.



Gun cancels to bait out teleports, punish lighting blasts on reaction with roll toss, get the life lead and lame him out. I don't think the fact that Raiden can't be cornered makes it a bad match because nobody can truly cage Raiden.


The teleport is good, but it is not risk free and given that Raiden can't overwhelm Stryker up close with his pressure game, they appear to have a similar speed on their normals, I don't think it's bad for either character


This is a battle of patience and good reads, Stryker doesn't blow up Raiden and vice versa.


B W1zZ I'd like to run some more sets with you, I've improved a lot since we last played.

I think Raiden beats Jade 6-4 though.

 

[bambooka]

B-W1zZ, why Jax 6-4?
Jax
1. Jax's D1 is good for anti airing Raiden if he tries crossing up with a jip
2. Teleport is punished by all pokes, dash punch, gotch grab, and F413 on reaction
3. Jax can en dash punch to interrupt Raiden’s B312 and 334 strings

Raiden
1. On reaction Raiden can absorb a dash punch with ex shocker and go into a 30% combo

3 vs 1
Maybe 4-6?

 

[Chaosphere]

B-W1zZ, why Jax 6-4?
Jax
1. Jax's D1 is good for anti airing Raiden if he tries crossing up with a jip
2. Teleport is punished by all pokes, dash punch, gotch grab, and F413 on reaction
3. Jax can en dash punch to interrupt Raiden’s B312 and 334 strings

Raiden
1. On reaction Raiden can absorb a dash punch with ex shocker and go into a 30% combo

3 vs 1
Maybe 4-6?

1. Most characters can anti air with d1. Raiden can do that too. If you think they will d1 anti air then jump kick instead.

2. Jax doesn't get big damage off of punishing teleport like other characters can. At the most he gets like 22%, which is ok I guess. All characters can punish teleport pretty much. This isn't anything specific to jax. Teleport on reaction. Problem solved.

3. Any character with armor can interrupt b312 and 334. If you think they're going to do that then do 33~tele or b31~tele. Whiff punish opportunity.

And as far as punishing dash punch, you don't have to use meter. Duck it, then stand up and 121~shocker combo. I think that's easier than trying to do ex~shocker and possibly getting meter drain glitch.