ask johnny cage thread

[A F0xy Grampa]

I was mainly talking about usa, but one thing i have noticed about the eu scene is IMO they have no clue how to get out of cage strings. I watched your guyses last tournament and i think it was u vs some mileena and that mileena player literally had not clue what to do. Cage is not at advantage on any blocked string but it seems like from what ive seen of the eu guys they block and dont know when to poke out or jump out. Still though, i think you would do pretty good in the US just not like in EU.

To be fair Helter hasn't played the matchup that much, but Mustard Ketchup UsedforGlue & a fair few others are pretty well versed in it (they weren't @ EGL though). Once we start getting our casuals running smoothly i'll try get some gameplay uploaded because theres quite a few things you can do with Cage once the opponent is aware of what they can do in certain situations.

It gets to the point where each string you do shouldnt be just a blockstring but a mixup too, he might not have advantage on block but since his normals are quicker than a majority of the cast it may aswell be considered advantage. Then you can make people hesitate to hit you back and such.

 

[XMADDOGGX]

Where's a good place to start with cage? I main subzero but I'm looking for another character. I used cage for a bit but only when his f+32 string was np cancelable then moved to raiden. He was fun to use and I'd like to know about the frametraps especially the ex forceball ones

 

[leek]

Where's a good place to start with cage? I main subzero but I'm looking for another character. I used cage for a bit but only when his f+32 string was np cancelable then moved to raiden. He was fun to use and I'd like to know about the frametraps especially the ex forceball ones

what do you mean "place to start"?

F32 into D1 requires a well timed D1 by the opponent to get out, but it's sort of pointless now that you can't use nut punch after it. F33~ex-forceball is your best option because it's 3 hits, but you can use any string that hits mid and be successful with it(21, i use 13 sometimes)

11, 21, F33, F33B3, 13 are all viable. Poke in between to keep them checked(not everytime, just more often then not) and get a throw in occasionally.

let me know what I'm missing

 

[XMADDOGGX]

Sweet an old enemy giving advice thanks man. That's what I meant to start I don't usually do rushdown so I just wanted a couple good strings. By chance are you the cage that placed 3rd at fighterxshooter?

 

[Playpal]

Where's a good place to start with cage? I main subzero but I'm looking for another character. I used cage for a bit but only when his f+32 string was np cancelable then moved to raiden. He was fun to use and I'd like to know about the frametraps especially the ex forceball ones

I used to think that to play Johnny Cage, you had to be pure rushdown using frame advantage and chip damage to win the round for you. I used to also think that once you got in, the round was over; no way the opponent's gonna get out. That's not the case though because many people have the wrong information about JC. The only string that truly gives advantage is 11F1, everything else is neutral or disadvantage. JC's fast, so it's not far fetched that he'll snuff out anything you do aside from a D1. But considering how most of the cast has armor now, JC's less of a threat. JC players really need to expand their game.

I feel learning to play footsies is important. B3 has ridiculous range; learn to utilize B3 effectively. JC's weak full screen but I feel people under rate his projectile. On most occasions you're not going to win a projectile war, but you can anti-air and hell, force balls do 8% so it is possible to win projectile wars on damage trade. Keep at mid range though, JC's hard to approach and hard to keep out. Shadow kick is another move I feel isn't utilized properly. 8 frames is pretty ridiculous and ex shadow kick hits mid. Use low pokes wisely (check poke thread that was made recently) and you should be good.

Similarities between SZ and JC:

Scary rushdown; JC's block string mix ups are one of the most devestating in the game, stay unpredictable and people will be afraid to poke. SZ has ice clone and 8 frame D4 which nullifies any reversal of pressure they try to do.

Good anti airs: JC has a 7 frame uppercut which is good for Kung Lao, flip kick for dive kickers and B3, standing 1 and D1 for everyone else. SZ has ice clone.

I use both and that's all I can think of at the moment.

EDIT: btw ex forceballs are +5

 

[leek]

Sweet an old enemy giving advice thanks man. That's what I meant to start I don't usually do rushdown so I just wanted a couple good strings. By chance are you the cage that placed 3rd at fighterxshooter?

If I can help, I will.

No, I haven't been to any tournament very big. I'm not good enough to place that high yet.

[MENTION=7704]Playpal[/MENTION] very nice. We still need to play, btw. let's set it up soon

 

[Playpal]

If I can help, I will.

No, I haven't been to any tournament very big. I'm not good enough to place that high yet.

[MENTION=7704]Playpal[/MENTION] very nice. We still need to play, btw. let's set it up soon

Sure thing man, I'll add you right now.

 

[XMADDOGGX]

Thanks playpal I think that's what I need the most is to learn footsies even with sub I don't utilize d4.

 

[Playpal]

Thanks playpal I think that's what I need the most is to learn footsies even with sub I don't utilize d4.

D4 is important to SZ's game because it's the only D4 that's 8 frames. It's 0 on block and gives advantage on hit so you really need to learn to use D4. Hell, I only use D4 as sub-zero when poking. He's probably the only one that can use D4 to escape and add pressure. If you've ever seen maxter play SZ, all he does is machine gun D4s. Too important to not use.

With JC's it's different. His low pokes besides D1 are below average in my opinion and even then you can't use D1 to apply pressure, only to escape it. That doesn't mean you shouldn't utilize his D4 or D3. If you feel it's unnecessary than I won't fault you there like I would SZ, but learning when to use it can be really helpful. I made a post about the advantage of some strings in the frame data forum. Check it out.

 

[XMADDOGGX]

I'll definitely check it out as for sub I play a lot of kung Lao so I play more of a jump distance catch him in ice clones punish tele type sub I've been looking more into rushdown which led me to cage

 

[XMADDOGGX]

Speaking Of Kung Lao do you think cagevskl is better than sz vs kl? Also can you punish the teleport wig a b3?

 

[Playpal]

Speaking Of Kung Lao do you think cagevskl is better than sz vs kl? Also can you punish the teleport wig a b3?

Yeah, I'd say cage vs kung lao is better than sz vs kung lao. I personally feel both are 5-5, but lots of people say cage has advantage and sub-zero is disadvantage, so maybe you'd think the same too. Cage can match kung lao's speed and mobility. Sub-zero's only real tool is d4 here because standing 2 whiffs on crouch block, so he can uppercut/poke/spin. He can also spin to interrupt 212 but I don't consider that much of a threat seeing as how hard the timing is for that. JC's frame traps can nullify the threat of spin, but seeing as how ex force balls are +5, spin is 6 frames and JC's F3 is 9 frames, there's about 3 frames you'd have to miss for Kung lao to get that spin off. 3 frames is pretty easy to miss so try and get a good understanding of the recovery of you strings. It's harder to play footsies because of the dive kick low crouch into uppercut always works. Kung Lao's standing 1 and standing 2 whiff on JC's crouch block, so you can uppercut to punish. Watch out for some Kung Lao's who like to use F3.

It is possible to punish teleport with B3 I suppose, but you'd probably have to crouch block first. You can't go wrong with D1, F3 nut punch or just a simple uppercut. Problem is that if you're standing, teleport 3 will snuff out B3 and if you're crouching, teleport 2 will probably snuff out B3. I haven't tested so I can't confirm. I usually just use D1, F3 nut punch or D1, 44 nut punch.

 

[GNG Iniquity]

I used to think that to play Johnny Cage, you had to be pure rushdown using frame advantage and chip damage to win the round for you. I used to also think that once you got in, the round was over; no way the opponent's gonna get out. That's not the case though because many people have the wrong information about JC.

Well, this was Cage. Before most characters were awarded armor, the wake up system was drastically changed, and the dash blocking was enforced. But, yes, I agree with you; JC has changed significantly and all of these changes frustrate me quite a bit playing him now. I'm still trying to play what he was, as opposed to what he is now.

I agree that shadow kick and flip kick are both under utilized, as they're both quite good. However, the fact that most of the cast now have wake ups that're invincible gives me less incentive to use them. Maybe this is just me? I don't know. If JC's zoning wasn't trash, his EX shadow kick wasn't so heavily punishable(and bugged), and he wasn't capable of being zoned to hell with ease I'd likely feel differently about getting a knock down but I try to avoid it as much as possible. Been feeling a bit like I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't with this character lately. I'm sure I'm not the only one with the sentiment.