Tech - D'Vorah Armor breaking Spawning Pool setups

[Second Saint]

EX puddle setups for Venomous and Brood Mother. It's very likely the most plus on block move in the game, literally more than twice as plus as regular puddle, and it recovers faster, allowing for some even stronger corner oki. None of this works in Swarm Queen. The EX version of SQ actually has added recovery and start up. This was all recorded on PC, but it has been confirmed to work in XL. Thanks to @BillStickers for that.

@Evil_Riu48
@TopTierHarley
@Sindelia
@VAAAAAAAAN
@KillaGthug4Life
@HoneyBee
@GGA pimpimjim
@Vak Phoenix
@ All the D'vorah's I forgot

 

[Syzoth]

Well done example.
Really shows how plus this move is though that's not brand new information.
Like the 100% damage demonstration.

 

[Hidan]

Beautiful and intriguing

Such a lovely character

 

[Darth Mao]

Add to my arsenal for sure
Venomous Boyz!

 

[Second Saint]

Add to my arsenal for sure
Venomous Boyz!

Yeah, I think it's probably best for Venomous. BM can use it, but it has access to a lot of setups, so not really the most useful for them. In Venomous, it covers some very key issues. Paradoxically, Venomous needs to be in the corner to be anywhere near full effectiveness, but she has 0 corner carry. This allows for some legitimate follow ups to an ender that moves towards the corner. It's a gimmick midscreen, but it can still work if they don't tech roll. And even after the nerfs, Venom still builds enough meter to fuel this.

Most importantly, it creates a situation where you can actually start all those crazy corner combos that start off highs. Enjoy.

 

[Second Saint]

@Second Saint Can you pls provide me a link to your video or the title so I can watch it now? My mobile isn't embedded video friendly at all!

Sure, no problem. Damn, it just straight embedded it. The title is "EX puddle setups". I added a space so that it wouldn't automatically embed. https:// youtu.be/UAcmUFf0vzU

Oh, a D'vorah main I forgot. @Enigma642 How'd I forget another PC venomous player?

 

[Second Saint]

Thank you it looks great and worth the bar. Does it need KOs like b12 or 113 to work best? What about combos ending with db4? And I envy you for being on PC having her pre XL chip, I surely miss it

Well, to actually make them have to block or delay wakeup past it, you need to use b12, end a combo with b21~ex db1, or in some situations end a combo with 212~ex db1. Basically the same meaty puddle setups that SQ uses, work for this. Nothing else has enough advantage. You can use it after a db4, if you know they won't tech roll or delay wakeup. At that point, it's just a gimmick though.

 

[KillaGthug4Life]

Venomous: The queen of online bullshit. God I love all the crap she can pull off.

 

[VAAAAAAAAN]

EX puddle setups for Venomous and Brood Mother. It's very likely the most plus on block move in the game, literally more than twice as plus as regular puddle, and it recovers faster, allowing for some even stronger corner oki. None of this works in Swarm Queen. The EX version of SQ actually has added recovery and start up. This was all recorded on PC, but it has been confirmed to work in XL. Thanks to @BillStickers for that.

@Evil_Riu48
@TopTierHarley
@Sindelia
@VAAAAAAAAN
@KillaGthug4Life
@HoneyBee
@GGA pimpimjim
@Vak Phoenix
@ All the D'vorah's I forgot

Fucking awesome. Good stuff man.

 

[solidsnake]

how does the queen fares against predator these days ?

 

[KillaGthug4Life]

how does the queen fares against predator these days ?

Depends on the variation, generally I'd say 5-5 on Hunter and that other variation no one uses, and 4-6 on the frustrating shooting variaiton. He has good pressure, good armor, good zoning, and good footsi. Nothing that really mops us but good enough on all these fronts that I would say we can't dominate him and it's much harder to control the pace of the game.

 

[solidsnake]

Depends on the variation, generally I'd say 5-5 on Hunter and that other variation no one uses, and 4-6 on the frustrating shooting variaiton. He has good pressure, good armor, good zoning, and good footsi. Nothing that really mops us but good enough on all these fronts that I would say we can't dominate him and it's much harder to control the pace of the game.

jeez... Is that valid for all of our variations ? HQT is real pain in the butt. I was wondering if the puddle traps/setups would help us constantly close the distance and have advantage that way.
In fact, do the puddle setups work against advancing specials ?

 

[Second Saint]

I did a thing, and realized that these armor breaking properties work after f112 on block against specials 17f or slower. Well, 17 is the fastest thing I've traded with, so I guess 18 frames is more accurate. Seems some characters can't jump out of it either, due to the larger hitbox of EX puddle. Definitely not something to do against everyone, but it could change a few matchups. Shirai Ryu Takeda maybe, possibly War God Kotal (fastest move I traded with was his overhead armor). I need someone to do the leg work on this for me.

Also seems you can low profile some moves to break faster armor. I can consistently break KJ's flip kick with ex puddle and d2. Conveniently, this also catches forward jumps, which are the only direction he can jump out. Even more conveniently, he gets hit at the exact height to combo off of d2 midscreen. She can also beat Shaolin's up kick, while flying kick is sadly actually fast enough to punish it. Even then, the trade is only 1% in his favor. Might be enough there to change the matchup.

 

[KillaGthug4Life]

jeez... Is that valid for all of our variations ? HQT is real pain in the butt. I was wondering if the puddle traps/setups would help us constantly close the distance and have advantage that way.
In fact, do the puddle setups work against advancing specials ?

I would like to argue that no one in the cast 7-3's Swarm Queen D'vorah just because her offense is broken (a +10 cancel off of a 12 framed forward advancing large covering mid normal, frame trap into a +2 string, frame trap into a low combo launcher, and gap that must be armored through off an overhead), she has great meterless and on bar damage output, she mixups that lead to combos (yes I know the b1 combo is hard to pull off), and she has probably the best footsies. Therego, no one completely mops SQ.

With that said HQT is a bitch, I'm not familiar with how to handle his cancel pressure but I know that when trying to deal with zoning, running in and d4 is effective. Just because it low profiles us under his laser shot and has great range to still hit and start up F1 pressure. DO NOT EVER NO NO USE YOLO PUDDLE. His armor is fast, advancing, and launcher so you will get punished ery time for that. Keep in mind that on block it is 112 WGC punishable. Which means 36% meterless punish... which is a huge hit considering most character standing 1 punishes. My advice would be keep close, don't do as many stagger strings and more mixups/F112 Cancels as it is a little safer and higher reward.

 

[solidsnake]

I would like to argue that no one in the cast 7-3's Swarm Queen D'vorah just because her offense is broken (a +10 cancel off of a 12 framed forward advancing large covering mid normal, frame trap into a +2 string, frame trap into a low combo launcher, and gap that must be armored through off an overhead), she has great meterless and on bar damage output, she mixups that lead to combos (yes I know the b1 combo is hard to pull off), and she has probably the best footsies. Therego, no one completely mops SQ.

With that said HQT is a bitch, I'm not familiar with how to handle his cancel pressure but I know that when trying to deal with zoning, running in and d4 is effective. Just because it low profiles us under his laser shot and has great range to still hit and start up F1 pressure. DO NOT EVER NO NO USE YOLO PUDDLE. His armor is fast, advancing, and launcher so you will get punished ery time for that. Keep in mind that on block it is 112 WGC punishable. Which means 36% meterless punish... which is a huge hit considering most character standing 1 punishes. My advice would be keep close, don't do as many stagger strings and more mixups/F112 Cancels as it is a little safer and higher reward.

Will keep that in mind good sir... Will also see if the Krawler in BM variation can keep him somewhat busy.

 

[GrimJack]

Depends on the variation, generally I'd say 5-5 on Hunter and that other variation no one uses, and 4-6 on the frustrating shooting variaiton. He has good pressure, good armor, good zoning, and good footsi. Nothing that really mops us but good enough on all these fronts that I would say we can't dominate him and it's much harder to control the pace of the game.

I don't play Pewdator or D'vorah but it should be 5-5 or a little advantage for her on paper IMO. She got the puddle that launch if trade and plus so she can run in. When she gets in, she can abuse pewdator since his armor is super slow.

 

[KillaGthug4Life]

I don't play Pewdator or D'vorah but it should be 5-5 or a little advantage for her on paper IMO. She got the puddle that launch if trade and plus so she can run in. When she gets in, she can abuse pewdator since his armor is super slow.

You could argue for 5-5, I personally think it's 4-6 because Predator controls the game so very well in neutral with his zoning, his pokes, and his armor. The fact that it's a slow armorer doesn't really factor in because none of D'vorah's mixups or stagger strings on cancels would break his armor.

But call me a down player I think this matchup could go either way. And puddle in neutral is such a horrible idea, we'll get hit by a laser and take damage while he can still block (even if he doesn't we can't combo off), and he can punish from nearly anywhere on the screen with the huge range on his armor lunge thingi thing.

In Corner it is most certainly 6-4 D'vorah. Just gotta get the bastard there.

 

[Invincible Salads]

I would like to argue that no one in the cast 7-3's Swarm Queen D'vorah just because her offense is broken (a +10 cancel off of a 12 framed forward advancing large covering mid normal, frame trap into a +2 string, frame trap into a low combo launcher, and gap that must be armored through off an overhead), she has great meterless and on bar damage output, she mixups that lead to combos (yes I know the b1 combo is hard to pull off), and she has probably the best footsies. Therego, no one completely mops SQ.

With that said HQT is a bitch, I'm not familiar with how to handle his cancel pressure but I know that when trying to deal with zoning, running in and d4 is effective. Just because it low profiles us under his laser shot and has great range to still hit and start up F1 pressure. DO NOT EVER NO NO USE YOLO PUDDLE. His armor is fast, advancing, and launcher so you will get punished ery time for that. Keep in mind that on block it is 112 WGC punishable. Which means 36% meterless punish... which is a huge hit considering most character standing 1 punishes. My advice would be keep close, don't do as many stagger strings and more mixups/F112 Cancels as it is a little safer and higher reward.

i would definitely say theres a good chance she beats HQT. also i wouldnt say she's broke either, i'd say she's in a pretty good spot. and if theres anyone that really gives her trouble, it'd probably be takeda, since he outranges her.

 

[Osagri]

Yt link?
Edit: Found it