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Aris' (Ongoing) Rocky Relationship With Mortal Kombat 11 | Avoiding The Podcast

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
This is completely false. Aris played Injustice 1 for a long time, and of course MK9.
If a couple months is "A long time" then I'm wondering how long you'd say the true legends of Injustice stuck with the game.

He was also done playing MK9 by the time the game hit its stride (a few months in).
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
He made top 16 and top 9 in Injustice and MK9 respectively at EVO, so it is pretty funny to try and dismiss his opinion as someone who never plays very long.

Not to mention tons of people have been complaining about how characters feel incomplete, it is not some groundbreaking criticism.
You and I both know that EVO is only a few months into the life of any NRS game (and in those days, before they moved it to August, it was around 3 months). Trying to spin that as someone actually sticking around after the early crazy days of the game is pretty disingenuous IMO.

(He also usually talks crap about our games/community during that whole couple of months. It gets him views and headlines).

I think we should just be honest about the fact that Aris was never going to play this game for the long haul anyway. By the time people start to actually figure out the meta and matchups and the first big patch hits, he's out. There's nothing wrong with that -- it is what it is. But it helps to put the comments in context.
 
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zHawken

Would you settle for me sausage?
I have a love-hate relationship with variations. Its an excellent concept, but done poorly in some situations. In MKX, some characters like Raiden/Kitana felt like you were playing 3 incomplete characters with their variations, while others like KL/Tremor felt like you had your choice of 3 complete characters with theirs. Like I said, great idea with poor execution. The best thing they could do now is remove the stipulation of competitive variations and let the pros run with it.
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
You and I both know that EVO is only a few months into the life of any NRS game (and in those days, before they moved it to August, it was around 3 months). Trying to spin that as someone actually sticking around after the early crazy days of the game is pretty disingenuous IMO.

I just think we should be honest about the fact that Aris was never going to play this game for the long haul anyway. By the time people start to actually figure out the meta and matchups, he's out. It helps to put the comments in context.
Most NRS titles last what, a year, a year and a half? 3 months is still a decent portion of the lifespan, and is different from dropping it the first month like you claimed.

It also is completely irrelevant how long he plays them for, his complaints should be taken on their merits, not how long he plays the game. A ton of top players of our scene have said they dislike the tournament variation system, so I think that complaint certainly has merit.
 
He's right about variations. They were pointless in MKX and they're especially garbage now with all the restrictions and confusion. Holding my breath for the day NRS goes back to traditional, complete characters.
 

Temp

Salmon. Otters. The Bringer.
I love Aris, but I'm not here to convert anybody. I do wanna clarify a few things on Kung Lao, though.

Basically thats the thing though, many characters are stuck with half ass tournament variations. Thats a big deal to me and other competitors who like MK.

Play as Kung Lao. Something is missing. Air Teleport is a fucking gear move. Anything but just regular hat toss is locked to the Z Hat variation, with air teleport, and its just the version where you can guide it slightly up or down. On top of this many strings leave you in a spot where spin whiffs ON HIT. Only logical follow up if youre playing the deemed “good” preset, Lotus Fist, is Orbiting hat. Which will also whiff on hit and block on certain strings. And its minus 7 on block. Lao, the two game strong pressure character, has no pressure. His best stagger is 3 highs that can be d2 crushing blow on reaction. Besides play lame and stupid passive, how do I play him? Footsies and neutral? His best mid is punishable and every option out of it ends his turn. Second best mid requires at minimum a bar to get more than 9 damage. One preset gives you three versions of one move, the other gives you Z Hat, which may need more exploring, air teleport which is aids bad in this game, and the fucking useless up or down hat. Im not saying he is definitely low tier or bad, because the game is BRAND NEW. However, I feel like my favorite character to play is a hollow version of himself from other iterations.

Same is true for other characters, Lao just happens to be my usual main. There are some who feel incomplete while also feeling very strong, Sub Zero for example. One preset literally has 2 specials. And guess what? Thats the good one.

What is there to explain? Since MKX we have began accepting watered down characters in favor of balance, thus revealing NRS isnt capable nor pressed to make a balanced game that is fun at the same time. It was never about playing a char the way YOU want, and always about well its hard to balance a character with too many moves, so split it up.
1) Yes, there are situations where regular spin will whiff. Once you recognize these situations, you can fix this with amplify. This has remedied all my spin-whiff situations. You just gotta know when to do it.

2) Once you establish the follow ups after F1, it's a fantastic stagger tool. With it's range, you can combine it with dash-in D3 for really REALLY good pressure.

3) I assume you're referring to his F2 when you say best mid. If so, I disagree. His best mid is F1. Dash-in F1 is extremely viable outside of midrange, and it's -5. F2 is good, though, but for difference reasons. I'll often do a single F2 on wake-up since it's safe and outranges many wUp3's, but if you know you can get the punish in time, you should be doing F214 for the crushing blow into launcher.

4) I do think he presets are kinda bunk, but the base character is so strong that it doesn't bother me. A lot of Orbital's corner damage is still unexplored, IMO.

These are my thoughts, anyway. As for the rest of you, I'm afraid I'll have to report you all to lord Aris.
 

Professor Oak

Are you a boy or girl?
I love Aris, but I'm not here to convert anybody. I do wanna clarify a few things on Kung Lao, though.



1) Yes, there are situations where regular spin will whiff. Once you recognize these situations, you can fix this with amplify. This has remedied all my spin-whiff situations. You just gotta know when to do it.

2) Once you establish the follow ups after F1, it's a fantastic stagger tool. With it's range, you can combine it with dash-in D3 for really REALLY good pressure.

3) I assume you're referring to his F2 when you say best mid. If so, I disagree. His best mid is F1. Dash-in F1 is extremely viable outside of midrange, and it's -5. F2 is good, though, but for difference reasons. I'll often do a single F2 on wake-up since it's safe and outranges many wUp3's, but if you know you can get the punish in time, you should be doing F214 for the crushing blow into launcher.

4) I do think he presets are kinda bunk, but the base character is so strong that it doesn't bother me. A lot of Orbital's corner damage is still unexplored, IMO.

These are my thoughts, anyway. As for the rest of you, I'm afraid I'll have to report you all to lord Aris.
Bro, youre just wrong. But Id be happy to run sets with you now that Ive got Skarlet and Sub on or passed the Level my Lao was at. KL isnt strong at all in this game, hes very honest. If youre staggering -5 f1, Im sure Ill blow you up.


Also, Im not talking about character viability, just fun and feel of character. Lao doesnt feel like a cool martial arts pressure master, he feels like a nerd with a hat. Its no fun and feels incomplete. Same for a lot of chars.

Im aware amplifying spin will make it connect, but that sure blows. No combos without meter, meaning orbiting hat becomes all the more unappealing. And thats ALL you get in a whole variation. The other var is a gimmick.
 

Temp

Salmon. Otters. The Bringer.
Bro, youre just wrong. But Id be happy to run sets with you now that Ive got Skarlet and Sub on or passed the Level my Lao was at. KL isnt strong at all in this game, hes very honest. If youre staggering -5 f1, Im sure Ill blow you up.
-5 doesn't mean reactable. The first active frame of 2 after F1 is less than 20 frames. Beating me with a top 5 character like Sub isn't going to change the fact that you don't want to lab.
 

Professor Oak

Are you a boy or girl?
-5 doesn't mean reactable. The first active frame of 2 after F1 is less than 20 frames. Beating me with a top 5 character like Sub isn't going to change the fact that you don't want to lab.
Doesnt have to be reactable to mash d1 out. Lmao. Also I dont lab? Check twitter brah, top players using MY tech. rolls eyes.

Lao isnt good, I spent a week trying to make him good. Tele? Reactable. What are you doing full screen? Hoping they dont duck your hat? You just whiff punishing? What char cant do that? Lmao. Im not trying to debate, because you are just incorrect. I asked King his opinion, maybe youll listen to it since Im apparently talking out of my ass. Ill hit you back in a minute.
 

Temp

Salmon. Otters. The Bringer.
Doesnt have to be reactable to mash d1 out. Lmao.
Then instead of staggering the D1, press 3 and confirm into free 240 points of damage. Once they realize they're not allowed press buttons, do your pressure. If you're afraid to stagger without plus frames, then you'll never get the most out of your characters.

Also I dont lab? Check twitter brah, top players using MY tech. rolls eyes.
Yet you didn't know that the second part of F12 has the same beginning animation frames of doing just F1. Hence, why it's unreactable. You also didn't know that you can fix the spin whiffs with a literal press of a button (EDIT: I reread your post; you did know this, but my original point stands). You didn't lab Lao enough. At very least, don't be resistant to advice. No one ever got better with excuses.

What are you doing full screen?
I'm walking forward and playing footsies. NRS gave you such good movement speed. If you're not in your optimal range, then play the neutral and TAKE your optimal range. If you're looking for a special move that enables to bypass footsies, maybe you'll find it... but you won't get better that way.
 
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DeftMonk

Noob
Then instead of staggering the D1, press 3 and confirm into free 240 points of damage. Once they realize they're not allowed press buttons, do your pressure. If you're afraid to stagger without plus frames, then you'll never get the most out of your characters.


Yet you didn't know that the second part of F12 has the same beginning animation frames of doing just F1. Hence, why it's unreactable. You also didn't know that you can fix the spin whiffs with a literal press of a button (EDIT: I reread your post; you did know this, but my original point stands). You didn't lab Lao enough. At very least, don't be resistant to advice. No one ever got better with excuses.


I'm walking forward and playing footsies. NRS gave you such good movement speed. If you're not in your optimal range, then play the neutral and TAKE your optimal range. If you're looking for a special move that enables to bypass footsies, maybe you'll find it... but you won't get better that way.
oak is no dummy. Lao is honest, not a top tier character. If that wasn’t important to him I highly doubt he would play sub zero. That character is bland as all hell.
Side point didn’t some strings to hat spin also whiff in mkx? Maybe I’m remembering wrong.
 
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Temp

Salmon. Otters. The Bringer.
oak is no dummy. Lao is honest, not a top tier character. If that wasn’t important to him I highly doubt he would play sub zero. That character is bland as all hell.
Nor do I think Oak is dumb. Nothing against the guy, personally. Though I think Kung Lao is good, he's probably top 15 at best. If he thinks Lao is bland, all good. Different Strokes. However, if you're going throw out a condescending response such as "Bro, you're just wrong," you need to have a stronger argument than "because the opponent might mash." I know "toxic" is a buzz word these days, but that's the shit people are talking about when they complain about TYM.

Side point didn’t some strings to hat spin also whiff in mix? Maybe I’m remembering wrong.
It's possible, but punishing at sweep distance with F13 into amp. Spin has been pretty consistent for me. Though I may be misunderstanding your comment.
 

FlowerFighter

Pressure
I like how defensive people get when Aris states his opinion.

"Who cares, he's not a real MK player anyways! He doesn't even like NRS games!"

As if this has any bearing whatsoever on the point of his opinion. Even if someone agrees that he dips on MK games early in their life, I still completely understand his point about not liking variations in the game. His lifespan on MK games or whatever you personally think of his stream doesn't make his opinion invalid.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Most NRS titles last what, a year, a year and a half? 3 months is still a decent portion of the lifespan, and is different from dropping it the first month like you claimed.

It also is completely irrelevant how long he plays them for, his complaints should be taken on their merits, not how long he plays the game. A ton of top players of our scene have said they dislike the tournament variation system, so I think that complaint certainly has merit.
3 months is not a decent portion of any fighting game’s lifespan. You’re literally just scratching the surface of establishing a meta at that point. And probably waiting for the first significant patch.
 
I mean I get the whole variation critique and it’s totally ok to not like the game.

But if you’re gonna say you don’t like it because they didn’t add anything new...you’re kinda totally wrong. This game couldn’t be anymore different than MKX. The run button alone changes the whole pace of the game. All while praising Tekken for not changing stuff up... :thinking:
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
I mean I get the whole variation critique and it’s totally ok to not like the game.

But if you’re gonna say you don’t like it because they didn’t add anything new...you’re kinda totally wrong. This game couldn’t be anymore different than MKX. The run button alone changes the whole pace of the game. All while praising Tekken for not changing stuff up... :thinking:
Not to mention flawless block, completely new wakeup system, krushing blows, new meter system..
 

DeftMonk

Noob
Nor do I think Oak is dumb. Nothing against the guy, personally. Though I think Kung Lao is good, he's probably top 15 at best. If he thinks Lao is bland, all good. Different Strokes. However, if you're going throw out a condescending response such as "Bro, you're just wrong," you need to have a stronger argument than "because the opponent might mash." I know "toxic" is a buzz word these days, but that's the shit people are talking about when they complain about TYM.


It's possible, but punishing at sweep distance with F13 into amp. Spin has been pretty consistent for me. Though I may be misunderstanding your comment.
Ya, my iPhone changed mkx to mix. I can’t edit posts on my phone for some reason the button doesn’t respond.
 

DarkSado

Noob
I love Aris.

He's right about the variations and if you don't see that, you're lying to yourself. Many of them were rushed and feel incomplete. I have full faith that by later this year the game will be in an even better place, but right now, variation-wise, it's a step back from MKX. Many of the variations have no direction. It's basically...."Ok, this character has 12 specials. Give 6 to this variation and the other 6 to the other variation."

Also, the fact that the ACTUAL TOURNAMENT VARIATIONS AREN'T EVEN IN THE BASE MODES OF THE GAME should tell you how rushed it was. I was playing the game for like 2 or 3 days before I realized you had to go into the kustomize menu and copy a preset. It's absurd.
I'm enjoying the game, but NRS would have been best served to release it over the Summer or maybe even Fall.
[/QUOTE
A lot of varaiton in mkx didn't even work in the beginning or they was so ass no one pick them up especially mileena ethereal varaiton took them moths to fix LMAO.
 

Thingy

Retired account
For fucks sake...this community just loves shitting on their own games that they continue to play. Follow the leader, sheep.

I guarantee you that if NRS allowed custom variations, the backlash would be just as bad if not worse. Broken variations that people put together, tournaments looking like complete jokes due to unforeseen balance consequences with certain variations...no matter what NRS does, there will always be a toxic response.

It is exhausting to be apart of this forum. About to throw in the towel on being apart of a forum and just follow the news, instead of reading the constant bullshit.
 
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