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Are you being counter poked after you hit d1? You're doing it wrong (Jailing system explained)

Eddy Wang

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
So, apparently there is a bunch of cries that "Skarlet has no punishes", and "her standing 2 should be a mid" because people often d1 low profile after she hits them with something, specially after she pokes and all of her highs are getting low profiled.

Well that's bullshit, another reason why i stand for this moto, MK11 its a game where what you put out its what you get, did you know that NRS has redesigned the MK9 Jailing system?


Hope you guys enjoy, just some quick tips from a few hours in training mode.
 
E

Eldriken

Guest
I haven't watched the video yet, but I'm gonna chime in based off of what you wrote up.

I agree that Skarlet's s2 shouldn't be a mid. It's not something she needs. Those who are asking/demanding for this need to learn to utilize their frames and buttons better.

She has two options after a d1 that can get her back to playing her game.

As I said: I haven't watched the video yet, so if you went over any of this, I'm unaware. Just throwing in my 2 cents.

Long and short of it: I will probably agree with what's in your video (that I'm gonna watch right now).
 
Wigy

Wigy

There it is...
That's nice and all but you got it about 50% of the time when ur expecting it. I don't play skarlet but having similar issues with cage. If you Wana do this you cannot even vaguely hit confirm your strings so expect the d2 kb mash to blow you up on a blocked poke or just getting counter poked every time.

Don't know what it is with this game but the poke mashing is crazy. I just do d1 grab all the time to stop it.
 
Ram

Ram

Buluc Chabtan
Wigy said:
That's nice and all but you got it about 50% of the time when ur expecting it. I don't play skarlet but having similar issues with cage. If you Wana do this you cannot even vaguely hit confirm your strings so expect the d2 kb mash to blow you up on a blocked poke or just getting counter poked every time.

Don't know what it is with this game but the poke mashing is crazy. I just do d1 grab all the time to stop it.
Click to expand...
I was going to say exactly this. You essentially have to be already inputting your s1 string after a d1, don't have time to hit confirm it
 
Eddy Wang

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Wigy said:
That's nice and all but you got it about 50% of the time when ur expecting it. I don't play skarlet but having similar issues with cage. If you Wana do this you cannot even vaguely hit confirm your strings so expect the d2 kb mash to blow you up on a blocked poke or just getting counter poked every time.

Don't know what it is with this game but the poke mashing is crazy. I just do d1 grab all the time to stop it.
Click to expand...
That's just a timming issue, which i think it can be solved for a few days of adapting more to the game, i don't even have 24h of it so far, this is something we all should definitely clear.
 
Wigy

Wigy

There it is...
Eddy Wang said:
That's just a timming issue, which i think it can be solved for a few days of adapting more to the game, i don't even have 24h of it so far, this is something we all should definitely clear.
Click to expand...
I'm doubtful with pokes being like plus 9 and jabs being 6-7 frames you would ever get that super reliably. Also issue is if they block it you can't hitconfirm and will get d1'd back into pressure or d2 KB'd.

I can see why skarlet players will be salty, the other players can just mash d1 and they have to make a just frame jails and blindly commit
 
Eddy Wang

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Wigy said:
I'm doubtful with pokes being like plus 9 and jabs being 6-7 frames you would ever get that super reliably. Also issue is if they block it you can't hitconfirm and will get d1'd back into pressure or d2 KB'd.

I can see why skarlet players will be salty, the other players can just mash d1 and they have to make a just frame jails and blindly commit
Click to expand...
So basically you're blaming the game for something you can't do?
 
LockM

LockM

Mortal
Okay so this answers what i've been seeing with some moves in MK11 where it says they're high but actually they can get blocked/hit on crouching opponents. I messed around with it a bit myself. For example Noob his F4 is a 2 hitting attack that goes low high but the 2nd attack cannot be crouched, it either hits or it's blocked.

You can actually set the dummy to random block in MK11 to help practice this hitconfirm link, but it isn't as self explanatory in the settings.
AI OPTIONS:
BLOCK MODE: RANDOM ATTACK
BLOCK TYPE: NORMAL
MOVEMENT MODE: DUCK
REVERSAL MODE: OFF

If the d1 hits you seem to have a 2f window to get the 1 out in time where it won't whiff on a crouching opponent.

The timing itself is something you can learn, no doubt, however what the actual issue seems to be is doing d1, visually confirming AND deciding to go for the 12 string. This honestly is very hard because it's 2 fold. You have to be very sharp on your reactions and also have to be very precise in your timing. I'm not going to say this is impractical as i'm sure someone will be able to do it consistently, however this honestly is more effort than it actually should be.

Regardless, thanks for the vid.

--------
Tested it a bit more, basically any move that leaves you with enough ON HIT/BLOCK frameadvantage you can perform an unduckable high string starter(if it reaches).
I'm no skarlet main but for example she can use f4 in the corner(less pushback) and it allows her to do the 124 string. f+4 is also safe and easy to hitconfirm.

Another example of a blockstring would be f4(hit), 44. 44 is +6 on block.

Thinking even more on it, if you do a j2, where frameadvantage will change depending on how high you hit them, you can do:
j2, 124
j2, 44(+6 oB, launches oH)

All high strings which are unduckable then. Not sure if this is new to you guys, but it is to me lol.
 
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H

Hor_PeT

Kombatant
Ram said:
I was going to say exactly this. You essentially have to be already inputting your s1 string after a d1, don't have time to hit confirm it
Click to expand...
I do not agree with this. I am just a casual but hitconfirming D1 every time with every character (for me it is a fundamental of the game - without this I can not control the game properly).
I even try to hitconfirm and still hit S1 on hit.
My friend is a big masher I have to learn everything on "pro level" to make him stop doing it lol. Learning Skarlet's D1 into S1 was my first practice session and it was not that hard.
With Kabal I can be more lazy as 9F mid is "easy". :D

I found hitconfirming pokes a bit easier in MK11 it seems a bit slower on everything (probably more time on animation and recovery). But maybe I just pick "slower" characters. :)
Hitconfirming and inputting S1/2 with scorpion in MKX was more difficult to me lol.

I do not say it is easy but not impossible. Just need to focus when poking.
 
omooba

omooba

fear the moobs
you can't hit confirm pokes in this game if your character doesn't have a fast mid. that's just how they want mk11 to be.
not sure if i'm a fan but i'm fine with pokes not being as powerful as they used to be
 
H

Hor_PeT

Kombatant
NaughtySenpai said:
There's no way people hit confirm d+1.
You gotta commit to that shit or the gap gets too big.
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Yeah it's pretty difficult especially during the heat of the battle.

A safer option: Hit confirm and follow up with F43.
13F MID means if your opponent do a D1 you can miss 2 frames and still trade (13-8=5). If your opponent does 10F uppercut you have 3 more frames.

With D1xxParry you can condition your opponent not to counterpoke mindlessly either.
I just labbed: parry gives 95 life back and does 152 damage if amplified. That's 247 health difference. It might worth the risk/reward to make the opponent think and confirm before mashing!

If the opponent needs to confirm too you will have the time you needed. :)

If you only do D1 because you do not believe in you or afraid of the counter poke you will sit with Skarlet close to the opponent and can not do anything. Opponent will be happy to poke and use a better mid on confirm lol.

I do not know if all of this is viable on high level. But there should be something to be competitive and not quit after a successful D1. :)
I will try to corporate that mind game during my casual games. On lower level there will be much more mashers anyway haha.
 
kabelfritz

kabelfritz

Master
Eddy Wang said:
So, apparently there is a bunch of cries that "Skarlet has no punishes", and "her standing 2 should be a mid" because people often d1 low profile after she hits them with something, specially after she pokes and all of her highs are getting low profiled.

Well that's bullshit, another reason why i stand for this moto, MK11 its a game where what you put out its what you get, did you know that NRS has redesigned the MK9 Jailing system?


Hope you guys enjoy, just some quick tips from a few hours in training mode.
Click to expand...
thx for another post that makes the fgc better!

actually exactly this is taught in mk 11's amazing tutorial section but not everybody seems to play it but rather complain. if you understand the all of mk 11 mechanics you realize how delicately frame data is designed and also how much gross changes like "make x a mid" or "make y +" could break this system.
 
Somea2V

Somea2V

Thread Referee
Eddy Wang said:
So basically you're blaming the game for something you can't do?
Click to expand...
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding here, but it's "blaming the game" to question the consistency and viability of hit confirming off a ~9f window (just using his example of a poke being +9 and your go to high being seven frames)?

The jailing system is important to make highs useful. There's no disputing that. But there are some jail links that honestly come down to reads, not hit confirms, given human reaction time. And I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but let's be honest with ourselves here.

EDIT: After taking a look at the recovery frames, I rescind this comment. Hit confirm is tight but certainly possible mathematically off basically everything. My apologies.
 
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Hor_PeT

Kombatant
@MylesWright_ said:
You wouldn't even need to backdash. Use the d1 hit advantage to walkback and whiff punish
Click to expand...
Yes it is an option too but character dependent. Point blank against good reach D1/D2 it might be not enough.

Good to have many options including pressure.
First need to make the opponent stop mashing. Then we can play the game. :)
 
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Kripplin

Kripplin

cat-o'-nine-tails
D1 to f4 is the only option IF you pull it off, but if you play skarlet enjoy giving your opponent free d2 krushing blows. All your opponent has to do is block low and flawless block b2 and punish. I doubt skarlet will be a high level s tier without some changes she is just wrecked by d1/d2 imo. Maybe offline things are better, but online it's just too tight on frame data.
 
ApexPredator1509

ApexPredator1509

☕️ ☕️ ☕️
You're not confirming that on hit reliably unless you're a f-ing Jedi. D1 into throw mix up seems to work well though

Edit: If u do manage to jail and blow up their poke 1-2 times they will think twice so it's indeed something I should get better at.
 
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H

Hor_PeT

Kombatant
Kripplin said:
D1 to f4 is the only option IF you pull it off, but if you play skarlet enjoy giving your opponent free d2 krushing blows. All your opponent has to do is block low and flawless block b2 and punish. I doubt skarlet will be a high level s tier without some changes she is just wrecked by d1/d2 imo. Maybe offline things are better, but online it's just too tight on frame data.
Click to expand...
Yes Skarlet is definitely not a 50/50 monster. :D
 
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