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Are there any strong counters to the really hardcore rushdown characters right now?

By which I mean the ones whose primary strategy is to walk you down to the corner and follow a flowchart stagger of one or two strings till they catch you pressing a button. This would most obviously be Jaqui and Liu Kang, and to a lesser degree Sonya and Scorpion. I find them frustrating to fight against, uninteresting to play, and boring as sin to watch, but I haven't seen a lot of strong counter play going on against them. It seems like those one-dimensional string staggers just don't have a lot of downsides.
 

GothamInGray

Hanzo Main
Playing someone like Scorpion who can escape the corner before it becomes a problem at least helps take that pressure off. Otherwise, it probably just comes down to learning the MU and recognizing the go-to strings for those characters.
 

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
Most common solutions on TYM, usually from the people who main said characters:

Just don't get hit.
Just flawless block it.
Just guess the stagger.
Just wakeup non stop. (you have infinite meter didn't you know?)
Just pick another character.
Just git gud.
Just l2p.
Too early.
 

Edmund

Kitana & Skarlet
The best thing I can think of is someone like Skarlet’s first variation which has the get off me teleport that sends her far away.

In general some tips:
•wake is getting punished more and more with back step so sometimes not doing a wake up or roll is good, especially if your character has a way to back up
•lots of people who can zone tend to have get off me moves like Cetrion, consider playing them
 
The best way to play this game, at all, is playing neutral really well and letting them whiff. If you play passive and don't do anything they'll overwhelm you so show the other player that you can make them hurt too.
yeah totes, being too passive will get you opened up sooner or later

edit:wording
 

GothamInGray

Hanzo Main
The best thing I can think of is someone like Skarlet’s first variation which has the get off me teleport that sends her far away.

In general some tips:
•wake is getting punished more and more with back step so sometimes not doing a wake up or roll is good, especially if your character has a way to back up
•lots of people who can zone tend to have get off me moves like Cetrion, consider playing them
Just blocking on wakeup or delaying wakeup can help to throw high-pressure players off their rhythm too, and neither costs any meter.
 

STB Sgt Reed

Online Warrior
  • Playing a really good zoner.
  • Playing someone with a teleport.
  • Playing someone with a parry.
  • Playing a really good rushdown yourself. (don't let them breathe/have a turn)
But that's all minor compared to:

  • Knowing the frames. If you don't know when you can poke out or take a turn, you're doomed from the start.
  • Punishing gaps in strings. Use things like pokes, flawless blocks, or armor on fatal blow to get out of strings with gaps or to make them think twice about pressuring.
 

xenogorgeous

.... they mostly come at night. Mostly.
depends how you play the game .... you have basically 3 states on it : attacking, counter-attacking and defending .... it's desirable you train hard to play attacking and counter attacking majority of the time, and only defending to counter attacking, not to "turtle" , to keep high defensive and passive stance, and ending letting the enemy/opponent take charge on the match .... and worse, putting you in the corner almost all rounds :confused:

fighting games work more or less like a game on turns : if you are fast, and attack first than your opponent, it's your turn; the next turn, is supposed to be from your opponent, and he/she has 2 options : counter attack or keep defending .... the smart player is the one that somehow uses his turn to attack, and the next turn (opponent action), he find a way to keep pressuring and attacking more, and ending kind using 2 turns for attack : the first one when he was faster, and the next, where his opponent made mistake not countering/reacting, and keep defending too much ... :D

as someone said, the deep knowledge of frame data, and what combo string to be used in the right moment, is a matter of importance in this game :)
 

Tanya-Fan-28

TanyaShouldBeInMK11
If your character has it, parry inbetween gaps. Jade can DB4 after the first two hits of Scorps 212 and Liu Kangs F43U3
 
By which I mean the ones whose primary strategy is to walk you down to the corner and follow a flowchart stagger of one or two strings till they catch you pressing a button. This would most obviously be Jaqui and Liu Kang, and to a lesser degree Sonya and Scorpion. I find them frustrating to fight against, uninteresting to play, and boring as sin to watch, but I haven't seen a lot of strong counter play going on against them. It seems like those one-dimensional string staggers just don't have a lot of downsides.
Been having issues with this as well. I think I'm gonna learn the opponents strings and record myself doing them in practice mode and try finding a counter. It's hard memorizing everyone frame data though.
 
As been said here you have to play neutral well. There are characters that Excel at it, but all characters have neutral. It is very much like guilty gear or marvel etc with set play mechanics. The best option is to avoid the situation as best as you can. In times when you can't you have to make the right reads and try again.

Luckily the set play is tuned down in mk11. Most hard 50 50 scenarios have punishable options. The rest of the pressure is disadvantage typically if you block and have time to retaliate or escape.
 
you have to play really good neutral until some erron black player says fuck that and dropkicks you. of course as a skilled player you block it and it's not your turn because you got hit by the low shot.
 
Cetrion is good for keeping people out.

Raijin Raiden is really good for punishing normally safe strings (4f reversal gets them to stop pushing the buttons they normally want to)

Skarlet has some big mid range normals.

But really comes down to two things,

  1. Controlling the neutral so they can't get they offense started
  2. Knowing, and recognizing the gaps once they do get it started.
FOR EXAMPLE

Jacquis best feint leaves her at 0 (22 feint). Her 112 feint leaves her at -1. Her most popular feint leaves her at -2 (f31). Spend some time in the lab so you can see those strings and start ups and practice being able to read when she finishes the string and when she feints it.
 

LawAbidingCitizen

Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
There are many good examples above like good footsies which eliminate most of their stagger options and mix and U+3/Roll/Delayed WU but what I don5 see utilized often which is actually strong is:

  • wakeup hop attack which low crushes many meaty options.
  • Getup Throw counters pokes
  • Getup normal counters some slower mids.
  • Wakeup Jump can escape normals
Knowing the specific frame to act is probably the strongest tool.
Character knowledge.

Anyone having issue with wakeup options I encourage to go to Tutorial Basic/Advanced and character specific. It actually is god like both for new and better players of all types.