Aquaman vs. Cheetah

[ThePaintedGrey]

This is, in my opinion, Cheetah's most insurmountable matchup -- moreso than Darkseid/Deadshot/Batman or anyone else. I've been absolutely embarrassed by casuals and good players alike. In 90% of my matches I don't even get close enough to attempt a move, let alone land one.

"From The Deep," recovers too fast to even attempt a lunge. It'll catch you every time. If it doesn't, then he'll anti-air with his Trident before you even get halfway through the animation. And even if, by some miracle, you do get in, there's his trait. So it hardly matters. By the time you get in again it'll have regenerated. Not that he needs it -- because his Trident is faster (seemingly) and has more range (certainly) than anything Cheetah could ever possibly hope to do.

I'm not here to call this matchup broken or unwinnable -- just wanted to see if anyone else has had the same issues, and if anyone has found a way around them. Right now I'm totally clueless.

 

[myri]

Nah it's Batman, haven't you heard?

 

[Espio]

Aquaman is the reason why cats hate water.

 

[HomeLee1121]

@karaokelove

 

[RoboCop]

She's got some decent options against Aquaman as long as she can get past d1-TR and d2. I'd say 6/4 at worst right now.

 

[Espio]

My advice from lab time: Command grab launches him even when he activates trait so you can get a pretty decent combo on him even if he avoids some of your other damage.

If you block a from the deep, it's pretty negative, I don't see how you can't advance after you block it.

I'm sure it's losing since he has the footsies, chip and ability to get out of your stuff, but you also have the means to get around trait with some of your core tools and his back dash kind of sucks so if he tries to backdash you can check him with forward 3 into damage.

It's not easy, but you do have some options for getting around trait. You can backdash from the deep as well.

 

[JesterSMX]

At Combo Breaker DJT was taking the third hit of aquaman's low string to get out of chip setups. I dash forward after every blocked from the deep although I'm not 100% sure if I'm safe doing it. Even a blocked f3 can get your offense going and mb f3 is pretty good to throw out in neutral around sweep distance. His long pokes don't do very well against armor.

 

[kcd117]

Aquaman is fine, you can slowly walk your way in, and once you get a knockdown it is worse for him than it is for cheetah from fullscreen. Getting in on Aqua is all about patience and proper spacing, lunge and jump ins shouldn't be used that often since he has a godlike d2, but every blocked from the deep you get a free dash in. Looks like a hard 5/5, he can keep checking you with his strong normals and from the deep but as soon as you knock him down you can abuse his weak wake up game. Could be a 6/4 aqua tho, but for now I believe that having no decent wake up is a major weakness against cheetah

 

[Zionix]

Aquaman is fine, you can slowly walk your way in, and once you get a knockdown it is worse for him than it is for cheetah from fullscreen. Getting in on Aqua is all about patience and proper spacing, lunge and jump ins shouldn't be used that often since he has a godlike d2, but every blocked from the deep you get a free dash in. Looks like a hard 5/5, he can keep checking you with his strong normals and from the deep but as soon as you knock him down you can abuse his weak wake up game. Could be a 6/4 aqua tho, but for now I believe that having no decent wake up is a major weakness against cheetah

This is completely false. If you block FTD outside of sweep range and dash in; he will d1 check you before you can d1 check him, he isn't negative enough. Our only option is to walk slowly forward and hope he makes a mistake.

It is a 7-3 match-up, his low starter even out ranges our d3. He can chew through our mb f3 armor really easy as well.

So when you do finally land a sweep, we do get an opportunity so don't waste it; do a jump in 3 and try to get a mix. You have to be fast though he can wake-up d2 if you don't jump quick.

 

[StormGoddess]

Aquaman is a problem for most( if not all) the cast.

 

[GetEmStretch]

This is completely false. If you block FTD outside of sweep range and dash in; he will d1 check you before you can d1 check him, he isn't negative enough. Our only option is to walk slowly forward and hope he makes a mistake.

It is a 7-3 match-up, his low starter even out ranges our d3. He can chew through our mb f3 armor really easy as well.

So when you do finally land a sweep, we do get an opportunity so don't waste it; do a jump in 3 and try to get a mix. You have to be fast though he can wake-up d2 if you don't jump quick.

+1 This man gets it.

Adding to that, all Aquaman has to do is literally B123 which leaves him at +2. He also has a 6 frame d1 (IIRC) which afterwards makes his d1 4 frames, canceled into MB Trident Rush. But i'm sure someone will say, "you can backdash after this string to avoid d1 MB Trident Rush" - I will say to that, it is an option but after doing that once or twice, a good Aquaman will MB From the Deep your backdash and get a combo. I don't remember if it's a full combo or just followed up with Trident Toss. Someone else will say, "well if you don't backdash you can pushblock MB Trident Rush" - And to that I will say this is also an option. However unlike some other matchups, Cheetah players don't get the luxury of building meter by canceling Lunge because From The Deep will beat that Pussy up...literally.

Full screen or half screen lunge is uppercut city and lead to a full combo. We won't build meter faster, his B1 when spaced correctly will beat D3, and MB F3 can be crushed by D1 MB Trident rush. This is at best a 7-3 matchup. Even found out the hard way that spending 2 bars on an escape to get out of AM bnb will be a waste because you typically land right back into the end of it. Now you have nothing for MB roll or extend any command grap should you land one.

 

[The_Tile]

10-0

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Aquaman probably does mop Cheetah. Iv never played a good Cheetah, but just looking at their tools, Aquaman definitely takes the cake.

 

[kcd117]

This is completely false. If you block FTD outside of sweep range and dash in; he will d1 check you before you can d1 check him, he isn't negative enough. Our only option is to walk slowly forward and hope he makes a mistake.

It is a 7-3 match-up, his low starter even out ranges our d3. He can chew through our mb f3 armor really easy as well.

So when you do finally land a sweep, we do get an opportunity so don't waste it; do a jump in 3 and try to get a mix. You have to be fast though he can wake-up d2 if you don't jump quick.

there is no reason to dash in after ftd if you are just outside sweep range, that's where you can play footsies to bait a b1 and whiff punish with a sweep or make him trade the second hit of the string with your mbf3. aquaman beats cheetah in the neutral, he beats almost every character in the neutral, but once he is down cheetah can destroy him on oki, his normals are godlike but his options on knockdown are very bad, he is free to ambiguous crossups, f3, f23, b1 and all her grab mixups. his trait can mess up a few hit confirms, he usually pops it when you go for 112 dp, you can mix it with 112 close lunge into unblockable, 11 high grab, 11 d3, 11 regular grab and all that stuff. It doesn't feel like a 7/3 at all, it can possibly be a 6/4, but idk, i feels more like a hard 5/5, it isn't nearly as bad as batman or supes which are the only matchups that feel really really bad rn, also green lantern can zone cheetah better than aqua, has more range on his b1, amazing antiairs, more mixups and better options on knockdown and it doesn' feel like a 7/3 matchup, so I just can't see aqua being a 7/3. It's still too early to label it 7/3 imo.

 

[Zionix]

there is no reason to dash in after ftd if you are just outside sweep range, that's where you can play footsies to bait a b1 and whiff punish with a sweep or make him trade the second hit of the string with your mbf3. aquaman beats cheetah in the neutral, he beats almost every character in the neutral, but once he is down cheetah can destroy him on oki, his normals are godlike but his options on knockdown are very bad, he is free to ambiguous crossups, f3, f23, b1 and all her grab mixups. his trait can mess up a few hit confirms, he usually pops it when you go for 112 dp, you can mix it with 112 close lunge into unblockable, 11 high grab, 11 d3, 11 regular grab and all that stuff. It doesn't feel like a 7/3 at all, it can possibly be a 6/4, but idk, i feels more like a hard 5/5, it isn't nearly as bad as batman or supes which are the only matchups that feel really really bad rn, also green lantern can zone cheetah better than aqua, has more range on his b1, amazing antiairs, more mixups and better options on knockdown and it doesn' feel like a 7/3 matchup, so I just can't see aqua being a 7/3. It's still too early to label it 7/3 imo.

Again you are posting a solution that relies on Aqua making a mistake, and getting whiff punished, that isn't a match-up thing that is just a player problem.

When you look at the match-up on paper and both players playing optimally, cheetah has extremely limited options in the neutral.

 

[kcd117]

Again you are posting a solution that relies on Aqua making a mistake, and getting whiff punished, that isn't a match-up thing that is just a player problem.

When you look at the match-up on paper and both players playing optimally, cheetah has extremely limited options in the neutral.

idk man, all the problems being pointed out rely on cheetah making a mistake too, like predictable lunges, trying to challenge aqua's b1 with d3 without proper spacing and things like that. It's a hard to play neutral game against aqua, but she's by no means helpless, I noticed aqua has a lot of trouble with her mbf3 outside of his d1 range for example, he doesn't really just chew through her armor like you said. I'm also considering the fact that cheetah doesn't win a single matchup in the neutral, she wins matchups on oki, which is aqua's biggest weakness. I see your point and I agree cheetah's neutral is not on par with aqua's, but not to the point we can say the matchup is 7/3 bc of it, her oki plays a huge part in that matchup as well. 7/3 is too much, im not saying she wins or anything, I personally think it's an even matchup, but it could be a 6/4 aqua, only time will tell, we can agree to disagree for now. I just feel like some characters like gl and robin can give cheetah a harder time in the neutral, and even then it doesn't feel bad enough to be a 7/3 matchup.