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Application for current MK11 dashes and why I think they are a good idea for THIS game

Circus

Part-Time Kano Hostage
There's been a few people up in arms about the way the current dash works in MK11. It absolutely makes sense to mention it considering the dashes don't really go anywhere and it's actually faster to just walk forward to close distance instead of dashing forward.

It's known well at this point that dash blocking isn't a viable way of moving around the entire match like it was in MK9. You could cancel the tiny dash into block or an attack, but you can't cancel the dash with another dash so there is a huge delay between continual dashes in MK11.

I've been trying to think of why NRS made this decision and what applications they intend this new dash to be used in and I think I might have nailed it.

Watch 8:27 to 8:30 in this video.


It's clear that NRS is focusing more on footsies in MK11. This could be seen from the safe frame data, walk speeds, and distance of moves of the current cast. They really want MK11 to be a battle of spacing, and it shows.

The current dash is perfect for this considering it's just a mini dash forward that could be cancelled quickly into an attack. If you're walking back and forth at the max distance of your opponent's common footsie tool, you could use this tiny and quick dash to close the distance ever so slightly and land your closer ranged footsie tool from max range when they least expect it.

It could be used as a sort of explosive and sudden offense. All you do is stand slightly out of range of your max ranged poke and when your opponent gets a little too close, you dash into your max ranged poke's distance and strike. Obviously this could be used for a quicker way to get a short distance away to extend juggles too.

Everyone has been so focused on the dashes not being capable of being used for dash-blocking or not working like other traditional fighting games that they might have missed a really pivotal usage in the meta of this game because these dashes could still be pseudo-cancelled with attacks.

Tiny quick dash cancelled into an attack might literally be the new run-in offense, but in a clever and mindful footsies way.
 

Circus

Part-Time Kano Hostage
You literally just repeated everything already said about the game.

Can we stop with these threads yet?
Everyone has been wondering why the dashes are such hot garbage. It's been a topic of discussion from the people who've played the game.

I did reinforce everything everyone has been saying about the game, but the topic is the DASHES, not the gameplay as a whole.
 

HeavyNorse

#BlackLivesMatter
I like dashing over running, but from what I understand, as the dashes are now they could stand to get buffed a bit. Be a bit faster and cover a bit more space.

But we'll see once the game is out. ^^
 

DixieFlatline78

Everyone Has A Path
I still would like to see the dashes be a bit punchier. Fighting games got by for years with just walking and jumping but these dont seem to be SFA walk speeds. Forward dashing after a whiff is a valuable footsies tool, as is backdashing to force whiffs.

With how big normals can be in this game, with how unimpressive the walk speeds are, and how you use strings instead of normals as pokes, I can see many times where you might have to just hold someone's approach instead of properly evading it to whiff punish. If Scarlet whiffs the first hit of that big advancing combo starters I could see a whiff punish attempt being caught by the second hit, where as a reactive backdash could position you away from the string for a more consistent whiff punish
 

Circus

Part-Time Kano Hostage
I still would like to see the dashes be a bit punchier. Fighting games got by for years with just walking and jumping but these dont seem to be SFA walk speeds. Forward dashing after a whiff is a valuable footsies tool, as is backdashing to force whiffs.

With how big normals can be in this game, with how unimpressive the walk speeds are, and how you use strings instead of normals as pokes, I can see many times where you might have to just hold someone's approach instead of properly evading it to whiff punish. If Scarlet whiffs the first hit of that big advancing combo starters I could see a whiff punish attempt being caught by the second hit, where as a reactive backdash could position you away from the string for a more consistent whiff punish
With how much more defensive this game is compared to other MKs, I actually don't mind that the backdashes aren't really that great. The application for whiff punishing is cool, sure, but if zoners had good backdashes matches might feel a little flat. It's kind of how it felt sometimes fighting a Black Adam in Injustice that just backdashed all day out of pressure to continue zoning.

Forward dashes could still get buffed and I wouldn't mind it at all, but at the moment I don't think I mind the direction they've taken for them in this game.


What people aren't taking into account too is that buffing walk speeds or dashes universally changes the game in way bigger ways than you'd think. The developers have the frame data on all projectiles for zoners made in a way that they know how long it'll take for someone to get in close range if being zoned out.

If they just universally buffed all dashes or walk speeds these characters would either take a hit balance wise or they'd have to rework their frame data on those moves across the board to account for the faster speed.
 

DixieFlatline78

Everyone Has A Path
With how much more defensive this game is compared to other MKs, I actually don't mind that the backdashes aren't really that great. The application for whiff punishing is cool, sure, but if zoners had good backdashes matches might feel a little flat. It's kind of how it felt sometimes fighting a Black Adam in Injustice that just backdashed all day out of pressure to continue zoning.

Forward dashes could still get buffed and I wouldn't mind it at all, but at the moment I don't think I mind the direction they've taken for them in this game.


What people aren't taking into account too is that buffing walk speeds or dashes universally changes the game in way bigger ways than you'd think. The developers have the frame data on all projectiles for zoners made in a way that they know how long it'll take for someone to get in close range if being zoned out.

If they just universally buffed all dashes or walk speeds these characters would either take a hit balance wise or they'd have to rework their frame data on those moves across the board to account for the faster speed.
This is true but there are plenty of characters with plenty of tools to get in quick on zoners. Teleports, projectiles that blow through other projectiles, raw advancing specials, etc. I also imagine zoning looked particularly strong because people didnt have a proper strategy to get in on it.

I'd like to see people have more control over their ranges is all
 

NothingPersonal

Are you not entertained!?
Btw, so that you don't say I'm just being a dick. Ultradavid said you CAN cancel a dash into block or normals, but not just as fast as MK9. So we'll see when the game is out. This can be tweaked if needed.
 
i would've liked run but apparently a lot of the lesser capable players couldn't utilize it properly but the dashes could be better.
 

DixieFlatline78

Everyone Has A Path
i would've liked run but apparently a lot of the lesser capable players couldn't utilize it properly but the dashes could be better.
A lot of people felt like run ruined the neutral, even at high level play. Chris G was pretty successful early on in MKX but he dropped it because "all you do is run up and do your combo".
 
A lot of people felt like run ruined the neutral, even at high level play. Chris G was pretty successful early on in MKX but he dropped it because "all you do is run up and do your combo".
plenty of fighting games that have run but their run didn't ruin neutral. it was run combined with mkx's strong mechanics in offensive pressure plus safe 50/50s and multiple 50/50s
 
You literally just repeated everything already said about the game.

Can we stop with these threads yet?
Not really, everyone has been running with the assumption that dashes are bad, have no useful application and need to be changed. The OP is suggesting the opposite could be true.
To add to his point every character we've seen has good forward advancing strings. That coupled with cancelable dashes could mean dashes are fine the way they are. Which is good to keep in mind when we see more gameplay
 

stokedAF

casual kahnage
I like it. Just because this is the first MK I’m actually going to get serious with and main a character. I’m glad everyone else has to learn like I do lol. Dick thing to say but I’m just being honest.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
I like dashing over running, but from what I understand, as the dashes are now they could stand to get buffed a bit. Be a bit faster and cover a bit more space.

But we'll see once the game is out. ^^
With dashes going further in faster in a game with Flawless block you will be flawless blocking most things while in movement, which is why they nerfed in first place.

As said before, in this game, each one thing a person tries to change for simplicity or benefict might end up screwing all others because they were built in a way to regulate each other.
 

DixieFlatline78

Everyone Has A Path
With dashes going further in faster in a game with Flawless block you will be flawless blocking most things while in movement, which is why they nerfed in first place.

As said before, in this game, each one thing a person tries to change for simplicity or benefict might end up screwing all others because they were built in a way to regulate each other.
This is actually true and I didn't think about that, but plenty of design choices have been made for fighting game sequels in response to complaints about previous entries that ended up lowering the quality of the game. SFV was designed completely around a couple mechanics like that and the game suffered for it.

And I'm not at all saying that's the case here, I think the way the game is right now is a step in the right direction for sure and I'm excited to play it. That's just a potential issue I see