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Strategy - Ancestral Ancestral Load Arrow Cancel Frame Data

Youphemism

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
Listed below are the advantages you receive on hit and on block from cancelling said listed move into load arrow while the opponent is grounded. All cancel frame data on hit may be off by +/- 1 or 2 frames maximum due to human error.

Move / hit / block

1 : -13, -17
11 : +5, -12
111 : -2, -7
B1 : -4, -16
B14 : +1, -7
D1 : -7, -24
U1 : -1, -11
2 : -9, -21
22 : -1, -15
221 : -6, -6 (wtf)
B2 : +4, -11
B21 : -3, -7
B214 : +1, -18
F2 : -6, -11
F24 : -2, -18
F243 : N/A (launches), -5
F2D1 : N/A (launches, can convert in the corner with D1), -10
3 : +5, -9
34 : +3, -9
343 : N/A (launches), -14
B3 : -5, -14
F3 : -5, -19
D3 : -1, -18
4 : -1, -4
D4 : +3, -20

That's what I got, it's as accurate as I can get it to be. Hope this helps Ancestral players (lol I say that like there's hundreds of us)

Edit: Updated for October 4th patch, since F2 had its block advantage increased by 3 frames it makes F2~cancel 3 frames safer so it went from -14 to -11 on block.

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Scott The Scot

Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
Wow. I will be taking advantage of this as best I can the next time we play. Some of this shit is full combo punishable lmao.

Give me a holla when the strings are included! ;)

Nice work though.
 
KIllaByte

KIllaByte

PSN: playakid700. Local name: BFGC MonkeyBizness
This is great. The conclusion I think you'll find, is that 3,4 string is most plus off of a cancel that keeps them standing, but B2, 1 , 4 is probably the best compromise between damage and plus frames.
The goal for me is to be able to mash a throw out before any of their normals can touch me.
 
buyacushun

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
Wow thanks for the tag. I haven't messed with KJ in a while. Actually forgot this variation existed, since bojustu is dumb easy and shaolin is getting some notice. There's gotta be some good strings to cancel into load arrow.
 
KIllaByte

KIllaByte

PSN: playakid700. Local name: BFGC MonkeyBizness
STB CoRzz said:
Change the title to "reasons why to not use Ancestral" please.
Click to expand...
I get what you're saying, but you are pretty wrong about this being the only thing keeping people from playing Ancestral.... It's the other problems, like time limited arrows!
For real though, no one will react to arrow load to punish, and even if they do anticipate your arrow load, you have other strings you can load off of to blow them up for mashing some reversal, especially since ex reversals are no longer option selectable on block.
Side note though, Ancestral absolutely is the answer for sorceror Quan and other zoners. The double stun EX arrow immediately breaks his armor portal on hit, and gives you a foll combo.
Also, if you anti air horizontally with a F2, or B2, or something-- literally only ancestral can pick up a full combo, if stun arrow is loaded.
 
Sallvatore

Sallvatore

Noob
It truly is a shame that loading an arrow is so unsafe considering that a raw load arrow is a death wish. I still will play this variation as it is the most fun. Now I fully understand what I am up against.
 
Youphemism

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
Sallvatore said:
It truly is a shame that loading an arrow is so unsafe considering that a raw load arrow is a death wish. I still will play this variation as it is the most fun. Now I fully understand what I am up against.
Click to expand...
Only three safe cancels on block...and a lot of the ones on hit are pretty minus. Maybe NRS will take a good look at this data and consider buffing Ancestral in some way :( Although that last patch was the last one before KP2 so this is quite a stretch and I'm probably too late but I'm glad I've done this anyway, a big load off my shoulders and something to tick off my list of things to do.
 
buyacushun

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
Guess I stand corrected about his strings. . . Shit like that makes me feel like NRS barely plays their game and/or minimal understanding of shit. Why make his variation specific stuff practically unusable on block? Same problem with MoS Raiden.

I think the 221 oddity might have to do with distance. Idk what that string even looks like but that sure is weird results.
 
RM NoBrows

RM NoBrows

Supah hawt fiyah
An RM member of mine just proved me wrong that they're unsafe. Reptile cannot special reversal punish with his 6f slide enhanced. This is HUGE
 
Youphemism

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
RM NoBrows said:
B143 AND F243 INTO RELOAD IS NOW SAFE PEOPLE. WE NOW HAVE A CHANCE
Click to expand...
RM NoBrows said:
An RM member of mine just proved me wrong that they're unsafe. Reptile cannot special reversal punish with his 6f slide enhanced. This is HUGE
Click to expand...
Dude F243~reload has always been safe, look at the frame data lol. And B143 isn't cancellable, although the string itself is safe, but if you mean B14~reload then yeah it's safer from max distance but it's still -7 up close.
Roko1985 said:
What is your Twitter? I have something interesting for you!
Click to expand...
http://www.twitter.com/iPaul_Y
PND_Ketchup said:
Imagine if he had some form of MB reload that sped it up and let him do slightly more with them?

be pretty cool.
Click to expand...
I've seen a lot of people suggest reload-related changes like a MB version that removed autoblock or made it faster or something like that. Personally I don't think Ancestral's up close game is what needs changed since he already hits like a truck and he's safe for the most part, I reckon if they reduced the recovery on his air arrows and removed the timer on stun arrow he'd be so solid it might become a variation worth using for counterpicks. Right now the recovery on air arrows is HORRIBLE and stun arrow is limited by both number and time given to use it.
 
RM NoBrows

RM NoBrows

Supah hawt fiyah
Youphemism said:
Dude F243~reload has always been safe, look at the frame data lol. And B143 isn't cancellable, although the string itself is safe, but if you mean B14~reload then yeah it's safer from max distance but it's still -7 up close.

http://www.twitter.com/iPaul_Y

I've seen a lot of people suggest reload-related changes like a MB version that removed autoblock or made it faster or something like that. Personally I don't think Ancestral's up close game is what needs changed since he already hits like a truck and he's safe for the most part, I reckon if they reduced the recovery on his air arrows and removed the timer on stun arrow he'd be so solid it might become a variation worth using for counterpicks. Right now the recovery on air arrows is HORRIBLE and stun arrow is limited by both number and time given to use it.
Click to expand...
Lel had no idea. Just started playing him again yesterday
 
FinalBoss_FGC

FinalBoss_FGC

Day -4MONTHS Dual Jin main
Youphemism said:
Dude F243~reload has always been safe, look at the frame data lol. And B143 isn't cancellable, although the string itself is safe, but if you mean B14~reload then yeah it's safer from max distance but it's still -7 up close.

http://www.twitter.com/iPaul_Y

I've seen a lot of people suggest reload-related changes like a MB version that removed autoblock or made it faster or something like that. Personally I don't think Ancestral's up close game is what needs changed since he already hits like a truck and he's safe for the most part, I reckon if they reduced the recovery on his air arrows and removed the timer on stun arrow he'd be so solid it might become a variation worth using for counterpicks. Right now the recovery on air arrows is HORRIBLE and stun arrow is limited by both number and time given to use it.
Click to expand...
I think they want you to armor the arrow to be plus but the pushback is dumb
 
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